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The Two Koreas

Discussion in 'Archive: The Senate Floor' started by Viceroy_NuteGunray, Jan 10, 2006.

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  1. Mr44

    Mr44 VIP star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    May 21, 2002
    How did John Bolton factor into your post?

    Did he suddenly become the Prime Minister of Japan?
     
  2. Ender Sai

    Ender Sai Chosen One star 10

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    Feb 18, 2001
    The link was background to the deal; you didn't hear him bemoaning it?

    Here

    E_S
     
  3. Mr44

    Mr44 VIP star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    May 21, 2002
    Yeah, but Bolton does a lot of bemoaning...

     
  4. Ender Sai

    Ender Sai Chosen One star 10

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    Feb 18, 2001
    When have I not rubbed salt in the wounds of neoconservatism? ;)

    ES
     
  5. Mr44

    Mr44 VIP star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    May 21, 2002
    But it represents his charm, kind of in the Walter Matheau/"Grumpy Old Men" genre.

    I think it's also a requirement that comes with the Moustache.

     
  6. Ender Sai

    Ender Sai Chosen One star 10

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    Feb 18, 2001
    Walter Matthau is pissed off the NK deal too?

    Damn, his influence knows no bounds!

    E_S
     
  7. Mr44

    Mr44 VIP star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    May 21, 2002
    Especially since it's coming from beyond the grave.....
     
  8. Ender Sai

    Ender Sai Chosen One star 10

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    Feb 18, 2001
    Precisely! It's even possessed John Bolton! Oh noez!

    E_S
     
  9. Jabbadabbado

    Jabbadabbado Manager Emeritus star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Mar 19, 1999
    John Bolton always has been an extreme parody of neoconservatism. His comments about the accord make a nice epilogue to the absurdity of the Bush administration in general, which I think we can now officially declare to be over.
     
  10. Mr44

    Mr44 VIP star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    I would still disagree with such an extreme characterization. Bolton does raise some valid concerns, even if he does so in an overly direct manner. However, "directness" not not equate to killing the messenger.
     
  11. Ender Sai

    Ender Sai Chosen One star 10

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    Feb 18, 2001
    But the entire point of diplomacy is to bargain to a resolution whereby you have both given and gained; and Bolton seems completely oblivious to this fact. Instead, he assumes the morality of the US gives it an inherent rightness which other countries ought fear and respect in equal measures so long as they submit to US demands.

    Having been involved in international diplomacy and negotiation with partners that have less political, economic and military clout than us I can tell you this just isn't so.

    ES
     
  12. Jabbadabbado

    Jabbadabbado Manager Emeritus star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Mar 19, 1999
    At least the Bush administration learned *something* from six years of mistakes. The definition of "John Bolton" is doing the same thing over and over but expecting a different result.
     
  13. Ender Sai

    Ender Sai Chosen One star 10

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    Feb 18, 2001
    Great piece from the Economist:

    North Korea | Show us the money
    [image=http://www.economist.com/images/ga/2007w12/KoreaMain.jpg]
    Show us the money
    Mar 22nd 2007 | BEIJING
    From The Economist print edition

    After a brief period of amiability, North Korea spits out the dummy, throws a tantrum and toddles off from talks on its nuclear-weapons programme


    ?A HEADACHE and a hard-to-understand group.? Thus South Korea?s foreign minister, Song Min-soon, on the topic of North Korea?s delegation to six-country talks that resumed in Beijing at the beginning of the week. Nothing new there, and his frustration was shared by officials from America, China, Japan and Russia, the other countries trying to persuade North Korea to abandon its nuclear-weapons programme. Despite signing a breakthrough agreement last month, on Thursday March 22nd the North Koreans went home.

    Meeting in Beijing for the first time since the agreement was signed on February 13th, officials started off in upbeat mood. America had just announced that one of the biggest obstacles to progress had been removed. It had agreed that $25m held at a bank in Macau, Banco Delta Asia, could be transferred to a North Korean account at the Bank of China. The funds had been frozen in 2005 because of American accusations that they were linked to illicit dealings. Now, the Americans said, North Korea had agreed to use them for humanitarian and educational purposes.

    But said Christopher Hill, America?s man at the talks, ?If something can go wrong, it often does go wrong.? The money from Banco Delta Asia had yet to be credited to North Korea?s account. Chinese and American officials tried to persuade North Korea's leader, Kim Jong Il that this was merely a bureaucratic hitch and that he should get on with discussions about the nuclear problem. But Mr Kim refused to join the six-party talks until the money arrived. The other parties hope to reconvene when North Korea has calmed down.

    The tiff was about a lot more than $25m. The North Koreans are sure to be angry that a senior American Treasury official, announcing the end of an investigation into the Macau bank, accused it of turning a ?blind eye? to illicit activity by North Korean-related clients. American financial institutions were barred from dealing with the bank, which has collapsed as a result of the investigation. American sanctions against the bank will continue to scare other banks around the world away from doing business with North Korea.

    This might deter North Korea from fulfilling its promises: to ?shut down and seal? its nuclear facilities at Yongbyon; to invite International Atomic Energy Agency inspectors to verify this by April 14th; and by the same date to produce a list of all its nuclear projects. But there are other reasons for compliance. After floods last year and severe cutbacks in food aid from the country?s two biggest donors, China and South Korea, North Korea?s perennial food shortages have been worsening in the past few months. South Korea suspended its humanitarian aid in response to missile tests by North Korea last July. Despite an offer this week to restart shipments of fertiliser to the North, Seoul has indicated that aid will not be fully resumed without progress on the nuclear issue.

    North Korea has toughed out hard times before. Jean-Pierre de Margerie, the head of the UN?s World Food Programme (WFP) in Pyongyang, says that ?food crises? could emerge in parts of the country this year. However, he says the country is still ?pretty far away? from the famine of the mid-1990s that killed hundreds of thousands of people. North Korea has shown no sign of eagerness for the WFP to expand its activities, which it was forced to curtail massively after North Korea announced in 2005 that it no longer needed international food aid. The WFP is now denied access to the hunger-stricken north-east.

    Even if North Korea gets its frozen funds back soon, there are stil
     
  14. Rogue_Follower

    Rogue_Follower Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Nov 12, 2003
  15. Mr44

    Mr44 VIP star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    May 21, 2002
    Related to this North Korea discussion:

    Japan announced today that it has deployed and tested 2 anti-missile systems in Tokyo. The PAC-3 Patriot systems are the first out of 11 total that will be installed around the country by 2011. These shorter range systems will also work in tandem with Japan's new longer range sea-based missile protection.

    The Japanese government specifically mentioned the incident from 1998 when North Korea launched a longer range missile over the island, but also indicated that there was no specific rationale for these deployments. It is another illustration that Japan is taking a more active regional role though. It will be interesting to see if North Korea releases anything other than their normal rhetoric.
     
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