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Senate The US Politics discussion

Discussion in 'Community' started by Ghost, Dec 6, 2012.

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  1. Ender Sai

    Ender Sai Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Feb 18, 2001

    Sorry Wocky at what point did I wade into a discussion about a pejorative term mocking capitalism that capitalists missed was a joke on them and subsequently embraced as if emblematic of their virtues?

    I just reject the notion having billionaires is at the expense of the poor. A key part of the argument is we have too many rich and too many poor; but you don't have too many poor because you have too many rich. Pretty simple.

    WRT to the questions of worker retraining, I found this piece:

    http://www.cfr.org/labor/no-helping-hand-federal-worker-retraining-policy/p35885

    Standout points:

    "In 2011, the most recent year for which comparable data is available, the rest of the G7 spent five times as much on active labor market measures as the United States did. Nations with a lengthier history of long-term unemployment, such as Germany and Denmark, have taken a more proactive role in equipping the unemployed with new skills and identifying available jobs.

    Although the United States has nearly fifty employment and training programs across nine federal agencies, this system fails to provide adequate assistance for most eligible Americans, and allocates its limited resources unequally among the unemployed. During a recent five-year period the Government Accountability Office found that only five of these programs had undergone impact studies to determine whether workers’ success could be attributed to the programs."

    https://www.theatlantic.com/busines...o-much-better-at-training-its-workers/381550/

    If I read this - you guys don't have a proper apprenticeships programme at the Federal level?
     
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  2. KnightWriter

    KnightWriter Administrator Emeritus star 9 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Nov 6, 2001
    Big story out in the last 30 minutes: https://tinyurl.com/kdutysm

    It's from the AP:

    Getting closer and closer to a smoking gun. I think we'll see at least one Republican call for a special prosecutor or some form of an independent investigation based on this.
     
  3. Yoda's_Roomate

    Yoda's_Roomate Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    Feb 8, 2000
    I think he'd better start a war with North Korea to divert everyone's attention.
     
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  4. Vaderize03

    Vaderize03 Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Oct 25, 1999
    That may be more likely than you think. The administration has certainly been rattling its saber on this, and the more negative news comes out about Trump, the worse it's going to get.
     
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  5. DANNASUK

    DANNASUK Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Nov 1, 2012
    No way the Chinese will allow it.
     
  6. DarthPhilosopher

    DarthPhilosopher Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Jan 23, 2011
    The situation is reaching crisis point. I think it's likely the West will go ahead with targeted airstrikes and what remains of North Korea will be disarmed and a pro-China state established in it's place rather than reunification. They won't allow it to be absorbed into China (too many refugees, and the South would be pissed) and they won't allow reunification - they need to make a deal for North Korea's neutralisation.
     
  7. DANNASUK

    DANNASUK Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Nov 1, 2012
    Again, there is no way the Chinese will allow a single US bullet to be fired at North Korea.

    Reunification isn't happening due to a brainwashed and peasant population, which South Korea could not afford to subsidies. China has no long term opposition to reunification of Korea, due to American troops won't be in the region for much longer.

    The situation isn't at crisis point, either. Every time North Korea wants something from the International community, usually more food and energy aid from China, it starts throwing toys out of the pram. Everyone has been smart enough to ignore them - except for Trump.
     
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  8. Violent Violet Menace

    Violent Violet Menace Manager Emeritus star 5 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Aug 11, 2004
    Nothing will happen. Nothing.
     
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  9. Vaderize03

    Vaderize03 Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Oct 25, 1999
    And therein lies the crux of the argument. You're assuming that:

    1) Trump and his cronies are rational actors (all evidence to date suggests that they are not).

    2) Trump cares what China thinks (his advisors might, Congress might, but his campaign rhetoric and statements over the past year suggest that he does not).

    3) Chinese threats will back Trump down (given his ego, they're more likely to have the opposite effect).

    I should also point out that the more wounded Trump becomes domestically, the more likely a pivot to an international crisis--either real or manufactured--becomes. Wagging the dog on North Korea, while certainly a horrible thing to do, will put a huge damper on Democratic Party efforts to hobble his Presidency. If he comes to the conclusion that the long-term political gain outweighs the potential risks, he may very well go for it.

    Don't underestimate the myopia of the narcissistic, nor the power of stupid people in large groups. Trump and his cohort fit the bill for both.
     
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  10. DANNASUK

    DANNASUK Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Nov 1, 2012
    This is no different, from 2004, when the US had a bright idea about potentially going to war with Iran. All it took was a few studies and calls to Moscow and Beijing, then the whole prospect for airstrikes went out the window.

    I know Tom Clancy's video games make war with North Korea seem pretty easy and fun, but it's not a great idea and will not happen.

    [edit]

    ermmmm....I wasn't assuming anything about Trump? Don't see how suggesting he wasn't smart enough as everyone else (on the Korean issue) suddenly meant I was defending him..
     
  11. Violent Violet Menace

    Violent Violet Menace Manager Emeritus star 5 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Aug 11, 2004
    Will anyone make any money off a Korean war? I don't see who benefits from it. Anyone care to explain?
     
  12. Vaderize03

    Vaderize03 Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Oct 25, 1999
    I don't think you're defending him at all. I do think you're assuming that pressure from Beijing will change his thinking.

    Now Moscow, on the other hand...
     
  13. DarthPhilosopher

    DarthPhilosopher Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Jan 23, 2011
    While they have no long term opposition to reunification, they do have an issue with it all the while United States troops remain in the region or South Korea remains closely tied to the United States. Unless the United States guarantees to end their alliance once unification is achieved (which would be pragmatic move) then they will not allow unification. If, hypothetically, the North Korean regime was removed there will obviously not be immediate unification - a government would be established to get "North" Korea enough generations past the regime both socially and economically to make it feasible.

    And the situation is reaching a point where actions will be necessary. The United States will not allow the regime attain ICBM ability or the ability to launch from their submarines and they are stupidly walking right up to that point. At the moment the North Korea's only pose a risk to the region - a situation the world is prepared to accept. Once they are within reach of threatening the homeland of the United States and the other problems North Korea having ICBM's entails, the situation will be deemed by the West to be untenable. And rightly so.

    The most likely (and best) solution, still, is a Chinese backed coup.
     
  14. DANNASUK

    DANNASUK Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Nov 1, 2012
    As I said before, this isn't a video game.
     
  15. DarthPhilosopher

    DarthPhilosopher Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Jan 23, 2011

    I know. You do realise the United States has been threatening to go to war with Iran just to prevent the hypothetical attainment of nuclear weapons. They will not allow North Korea to attain ICBM's, as terrible as that prospect is, and the Chinese have no real interest, or ability, to realistically stop any action by the US.

    You live in a world where Trump is president. How is this unlikely?

    No one wants war and no one will benefit (except maybe the future generations of North Koreans). It's about North Korea stupidly trying to attain something that will force the US's hand. Wars can be stumbled into.
     
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  16. DANNASUK

    DANNASUK Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Nov 1, 2012
    I know, judging by your posts, you think the United States has some sort of moralistic right to police the world - but it really doesn't. If you're that scared by North Korea, who have a history of empty threats, you might as well never leave your house. There are more scary things outside your front door, than North Korea.

    As for Iran, there was me thinking an oil pipeline and potential abandoning of petro dollars had a lot to do with all the war talk...
     
  17. Violent Violet Menace

    Violent Violet Menace Manager Emeritus star 5 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Aug 11, 2004
    Sure, but Trump is too apathetic to stumble into anything with North Korea. And his voters don't care, so he doesn't need to adopt any strongman posture vis-a-vis them. The savages in vogue today are Muslims.
     
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  18. DarthPhilosopher

    DarthPhilosopher Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Jan 23, 2011

    They have the moral imperative, provided there is support from the rest of the West based upon the weighting of the threats, to intervene if the threat is raised. The idea that the West should just not act against threats, especially nuclear, is ridiculous. Having a little despot with the ability to annihilate even few cities by accident or miscalculation is something I think should be avoided. We already have Trump with nuclear weapons - I don't think North Korea (or any other nation beyond the ones we already have) should have ability to directly threaten anything beyond what they have now.

    And I don't think North Korea is going to purposefully start a war. They could however start one because of a miscalculation on someone's part.

    a) North Korea is the one stumbling
    b) It's a war that could be rationalised far more than any war Iran or Iraq. If the polls look bad he will probably opt for that gamble.
     
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  19. Rylo Ken

    Rylo Ken Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Dec 19, 2015
    The United States will allow [the regime attain ICBM ability or the ability to launch from their submarines] because there's nothing the United States is willing to do to stop it.
     
  20. DarthPhilosopher

    DarthPhilosopher Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Jan 23, 2011
    Wait, wait, wait, didn't you predict a Third World War in 25 years? A feel like a strike against North Korean nuclear abilities is far more likely than any nation actually launching catastrophic nuclear exchange.

    ;)
     
  21. Lord Vivec

    Lord Vivec Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Apr 17, 2006
    I'm sorry, what did I fail to deliver on?
     
  22. Vaderize03

    Vaderize03 Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Oct 25, 1999
    Uh-oh

    While this appears to be perfectly legal and unrelated to either President Obama or Russia, you can be damn sure Trump is going to use it to claim 'vindication' that he was 'tapped'.

    Now, more than ever, we need a special prosecutor. The Republicans will use this to try and put Democrats on the defensive, but it won't work. The Democrats will counter that the surveillance, if it was legal, meant there were concerns something fishy was happening. And round and round we'll go, until government grinds to a halt.

    Special prosecutor, or Washington will soon slip into complete paralysis. I'm betting on the latter.

    Peace,

    V-03
     
  23. Game3525

    Game3525 Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 25, 2008
    As a Trump lackey, why would you even say this? This doesn't help him at all, if this is true this means the President is in some deep ****.
     
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  24. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Skywalker Saga/LFL/YJCC Manager star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Mar 4, 2011
  25. Ender Sai

    Ender Sai Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Feb 18, 2001
    I have to give him credit; on a daily basis he proves the office of the Presidency is the top of a pyramid mate entirely of unicorn farts.
     
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