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Senate The US Politics discussion

Discussion in 'Community' started by Ghost, Dec 6, 2012.

Thread Status:: Not open for further replies.

Page 1027 of 3591

VadersLaMent Chosen One

Registered:

Apr 3, 2002

Adam of Nuchtern said: ↑

Bill has been pulled.
Click to expand...

VadersLaMent, Mar 24, 2017

#25651

EHT, Violent Violet Menace, Pensivia and 1 other person like this.
Yodaminch Chosen One

Registered:

Mar 6, 2002

To Trump:

Yodaminch, Mar 24, 2017

#25652

Pensivia and Juliet316 like this.
Ramza Administrator Emeritus VIP - Former Mod/RSA

Registered:

Jul 13, 2008

VadersLaMent said: ↑

Adam of Nuchtern said: ↑

Bill has been pulled.
Click to expand...

Click to expand...

FTFY.

Ramza, Mar 24, 2017

#25653

Healer_Leona , anakinfansince1983 , EHT and 3 others like this.
KnightWriter Administrator Emeritus VIP - Former Mod/RSA

Registered:

Nov 6, 2001

The ACA survives once again. Has any piece of major legislation ever had so much thrown at it while still remaining (mostly) intact?

KnightWriter, Mar 24, 2017

#25654

Jedi Merkurian likes this.
Darth Guy Chosen One

Registered:

Aug 16, 2002

Tonight Paul Ryan will be crying while masturbating to his well-worn copy of Atlas Shrugged.

Darth Guy, Mar 24, 2017

#25655

Yoda's_Roomate, darthcaedus1138, anakinfansince1983 and 9 others like this.
Ramza Administrator Emeritus VIP - Former Mod/RSA

Registered:

Jul 13, 2008

Darth Guy said: ↑

Tonight Paul Ryan will be crying while masturbating to his well-worn copy of Atlas Shrugged.
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Who is John Galt? It sure as **** ain't Paul Ryan.

Ramza, Mar 24, 2017

#25656

anakinfansince1983 , Darth Nerdling, Vaderize03 and 1 other person like this.
Slowpokeking Jedi Master

Registered:

Sep 21, 2012

Why were they so eager to remove the ACA? Didn't Romney have something similar in his state?

Slowpokeking, Mar 24, 2017

#25657
Juliet316 39x Hangman Winner VIP - Game Winner

Registered:

Apr 27, 2005

Because Obama introduced it.

Juliet316 , Mar 24, 2017

#25658

Alpha-Red, Jedi Merkurian , unicorn and 8 others like this.
Adam of Nuchtern Force Ghost

Registered:

Sep 2, 2012

Because the Dems proposed it.

Adam of Nuchtern, Mar 24, 2017

#25659

Alpha-Red, Jedi Merkurian , Pensivia and 4 others like this.
JoshieHewls Jedi Grand Master

Registered:

May 16, 2013

Slowpokeking said: ↑

Why were they so eager to remove the ACA? Didn't Romney have something similar in his state?
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Because they demonized it for not being created specifically by a sitting president with an R next to his name.

JoshieHewls, Mar 24, 2017

#25660

Alpha-Red, Jedi Merkurian , Pensivia and 3 others like this.
KnightWriter Administrator Emeritus VIP - Former Mod/RSA

Registered:

Nov 6, 2001

Adam of Nuchtern said: ↑

Because the Dems proposed it.
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*a black man. This remains a major source of animosity, I believe, at least in strongly conservative circles.

KnightWriter, Mar 24, 2017

#25661

Jedi Merkurian , Pensivia, anakinfansince1983 and 1 other person like this.
Juliet316 39x Hangman Winner VIP - Game Winner

Registered:

Apr 27, 2005

KnightWriter said: ↑

Adam of Nuchtern said: ↑

Because the Dems proposed it.
Click to expand...

*a black man. This remains a major source of animosity, I believe, at least in strongly conservative circles.
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Would it have been different or worse if Hilary Clinton had proposed it, because I remember the **** storm in '93 when Hilary was put in charge of that failed healtcare commission.

Juliet316 , Mar 24, 2017

#25662
Violent Violet Menace Manager Emeritus VIP - Former Mod/RSA

Registered:

Aug 11, 2004

So I remember being told that General "Mad Dog" Mattis was a standup guy when I raised issue with him upon his confirmation. dp4m, Ender Sai, heels1785, GrandAdmiralJello, Lord Vivec

AMY GOODMAN: I want to bring Aaron Glantz into the discussion to talk about the questions around Iraq and the piece that you wrote as a reporter at Reveal, asking, "Did defense secretary nominee James Mattis commit war crimes in Iraq?" We spoke to you yesterday briefly about this before the hearing, but lay out what your allegation is and whether you think any of these issues were addressed yesterday.

AARON GLANTZ: So, General Mattis’s primary experience—indeed, his only experience—is as a member of the United States Marine Corps, where he served for 41 years. That’s his experience. And since 9/11, as Dr. Bacevich noted, we’ve been engaged in wars around the world, and General Mattis has been a leading battlefield commander in many of those theaters, including in the April 2004 siege of Fallujah, where the U.S. Marines killed so many people that the municipal soccer stadium in the city had to be turned into a graveyard for the dead. There’s documented cases of U.S. marines shooting at ambulances, shooting at aid workers, destroying shopping centers, raising huge issues not only of violations of the Geneva Convention over targeting protected groups, but also of proportionality, because the entire battle was launched to get the people who killed four Blackwater security contractors, and a city of 300,000 people, about the same size as Oakland, California, or Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, was leveled in response, under the command of General Mattis. That was not discussed at all during the hearing, either from an accountability perspective, which is what I was suggesting in my article—you know, questions that should be raised about whether or not he committed war crimes—but even, in a more limited way, what did you learn as a battlefield commander in Iraq, in Afghanistan, and how might you apply that, the lessons that you learned through those experiences, as secretary of defense, is simply not raised at all during the hearing.

JUAN GONZÁLEZ: And, Aaron, in that vein, General Mattis has also been criticized in the past with some of his quotes, for instance, in 2005, saying of the Taliban, "It’s a hell of a lot of fun to shoot them." None of this came up in the hearings, as well, right?

AARON GLANTZ: Well, I mean, I think that that is a comment that doesn’t trouble observers so much. It’s the kind of thing that he said in front of a group of other marines, the kind of remark that you might hear, you know, in military circles frequently. What concerned me was that he played not only a critical role as a battlefield commander in Fallujah, but also, afterwards, when he was promoted to various other higher-ranking positions, he served as a convening authority in court-martial proceedings against various marines who had been accused of atrocities—for example, in the Haditha massacre, where a group of marines went on a killing spree after one in their unit was killed. And they killed, according to a Time magazine investigation, dozens of Iraqi civilians in their homes and also in a car and up on a ridge. And General Mattis dismissed the charges against many of the marines accused, personally intervening to clear their names before the justice system had run its course. And in the end, nobody connected to that massacre served a day in prison. In another case, a story—

AMY GOODMAN: I want to go—I want to go, Aaron, to 2008, to what you’re talking about, when we spoke to McClatchy journalist Leila Fadel, who traveled to Haditha to interview survivors of the massacre. I want to turn to this short video posted on the McClatchy website based on her reporting.

LEILA FADEL: Yousef Aid Ahmed has memorized the places where his four brothers’ bodies laid after they were killed by U.S. marines, he said. The family recounts that November day in 2005 and says it was a massacre of the brothers, along with 20 other people, following a roadside bomb in Haditha. Marines raided the house and shot the unarmed men in their heads in this back bedroom, the family said. Now they are angry that no one is being held accountable. Charges against six of the eight marines accused in the case were dismissed, and one marine was found not guilty on all charges.
WIDOW: [translated] I’m angry at those who sent them innocent. They were not supposed to sent innocent.
LEILA FADEL: The reminders of their deaths are everywhere: the white plaster that filled in the bullet holes in the wall, the dried blood that are now just faded gray spots under a new paint job on the ceiling, and the closet where one brother was shot inside and the other’s corpse leaned up against the wardrobe.
AMY GOODMAN: That was Leila Fadel, McClatchy journalist who traveled to Haditha. This was way back in 2008. And talk about what came of this, Aaron.

AARON GLANTZ: As I was saying, in the end, only one person was convicted in connection to this massacre. He—it was just for dereliction of duty—did not spend a day in prison. So, ultimately, there was really no justice for the victims of this massacre. And that was in part because of the role that General Mattis played as the convening authority, basically the boss, of the entire military justice process around this massacre, often called the My Lai massacre of the Iraq War.

And it’s not the only case where he intervened. He also intervened in the case in Hamdania, a massacre—a killing, broken by The Washington Post, where a disabled Iraqi man was pulled out of his house and shot in the face by marines, who then tried to frame him as an insurgent by placing a machine gun and a shovel on him, on his dead body, to make it look like he was an insurgent. General Mattis, in that case, intervened and freed marines from prison, after they had already been convicted in connection with that killing. So, he has a record that really should have been examined during the hearing yesterday, that senators did not ask about.

AMY GOODMAN: Aaron Glantz, do you think that General Bacevich—sorry, do you think that General Mattis should be brought up on war crimes charges?

AARON GLANTZ: I think it’s something that we need to seriously explore here. As I said in my article, the case that I document regarding General Mattis’s command in Fallujah resembles, in many ways, the case that the United States of America brought against General Yama****a of Japan following World War II. He was not accused of directly perpetrating war crimes during World War II, but he had command authority over Japanese troops that did commit very serious war crimes in Southeast Asia. And they involved very similar activities to the ones that the U.S. marines under General Mattis’s command committed in Fallujah. And this is the doctrine of command responsibility. The U.S. Supreme Court ultimately upheld the execution of General Yama****a. Other military commanders in Yugoslavia and Rwanda have been convicted under similar doctrines. And I think that this is something that really should be discussed thoroughly before his confirmation is approved. And at this point, it doesn’t look likely.
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Source:
Part 1
Part 2

And this is the piece from Reveal that Glantz was referencing: Did defense secretary nominee James Mattis commit war crimes in Iraq?

Retired Gen. James Mattis earned the nickname “Mad Dog” for leading U.S. Marines into battle in Fallujah, Iraq, in April 2004. In that assault, members of the Marine Corps, under Mattis’ command, shot at ambulances and aid workers. They cordoned off the city, preventing civilians from escaping. They posed for trophy photos with the people they killed. Each of these offenses has put other military commanders and members of the rank and file in front of international war crimes tribunals. The doctrine that landed them there dates back to World War II, when an American military tribunal held Japanese Gen. Tomoyuki Yama****a accountable for war crimes in the Philippines. His execution later was upheld by the U.S. Supreme Court. During the siege of Fallujah, which I covered as an unembedded journalist, Marines killed so many civilians that the municipal soccer stadium had to be turned into a graveyard.

In the years since, Mattis – called a “warrior monk” by his supporters – repeatedly has protected American service members who killed civilians, using his status as a division commander to wipe away criminal charges against Marines accused of massacring 24 Iraqi civilians in Haditha in 2005 and granting clemency to some of those convicted in connection with the 2006 murder of a 52-year-old disabled Iraqi, who was taken outside his home and shot in the face four times.

These actions show a different side of Mattis, now 66, than has been featured in most profiles published since his nomination as President-elect Donald Trump’s defense secretary, which have portrayed him as a strong proponent of the Geneva Conventions and an anti-torture advocate. Although Mattis argued against the siege of Fallujah beforehand, both international and U.S. law are clear: As the commanding general, he should be held accountable for atrocities committed by Marines under his command. Reveal from The Center for Investigative Reporting received no reply to messages sent to Mattis’ personal, business and military email addresses. Trump’s transition team likewise did not respond to inquiries. Mattis’ biography on the transition team’s website does not mention the battle.

“There have been credible reports that U.S. troops under the command of Gen. Mattis did target civilians, conducted indiscriminate attacks and also conducted attacks against military objectives that caused disproportionate casualties to civilians during military operations in Fallujah,” said Gabor Rona, who teaches international law at Columbia University and worked as a legal adviser at the Geneva headquarters of the International Committee of the Red Cross at the time of the siege.

“All of these are war crimes,” Rona said. “Applying the doctrine of command responsibility, Gen. Mattis would be responsible for these misdeeds, these war crimes of troops under his command if he … either knew, should’ve known or did nothing to prevent or punish this behavior.”

Nearly 13 years later, the siege of Fallujah has receded from the headlines. But for those of us who experienced the events firsthand, the death and destruction are seared into our memories. The lack of accountability for the killing of so many civilians grates like nails on chalkboard. Given his command responsibility, Mattis’ confirmation hearing for defense secretary, which starts Thursday, provides an opportunity to probe his role in the killings, including asking whether he committed war crimes.
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Violent Violet Menace, Mar 24, 2017

#25663

Alpha-Red, Rew, JoinTheSchwarz and 1 other person like this.
Vaderize03 Manager Emeritus VIP - Former Mod/RSA

Registered:

Oct 25, 1999

Darth Nerdling said: ↑

The best hope for the Democrats in the future: redrawing gerrymandered districts so that the representation in the House reflects the American electorate as a whole.

The best hope for the Republicans to be able to pass legislation in the future: redrawing gerrymandered districts so that their party isn't held hostage by obstructionists.

Fairest thing for Democracy as a whole: having fairly gerrymandered states.

What should happen nationwide? Gerrymandering reform.

What will happen? Nothing.
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I've been saying this for how long? It's more important than Citizens United, IMHO. Certainly more so than term limits.

EDIT: The events of this week remind me of a character named "The Captain" from an old episode of classic Doctor Who, called "Pirate Planet". Whenever the Captain didn't get his way, he would single someone out, assign them blame, then croon "you've failed failed FAILED" right before sending his killer robot parrot to zap them with a cheesy 70's-special effects chroma-key laser beam.

If anyone could dig up/create a meme based on this, you'd be my new BFF (I'm not computer literate enough).

Vaderize03, Mar 24, 2017

#25664

Darth Nerdling likes this.
JoinTheSchwarz Former Head Admin VIP - Former Mod/RSA

Registered:

Nov 21, 2002

single payer plz nao

JoinTheSchwarz , Mar 24, 2017

#25665

V-2, Jedi Merkurian , Darth Guy and 6 others like this.
anakinfansince1983 Skywalker Saga/LFL/YJCC Manager Staff Member Manager

Registered:

Mar 4, 2011

Juliet316 : Yes, there would have been this much outrage if Hillary had introduced it, because she is not a white man with an R next to her name either.

anakinfansince1983 , Mar 24, 2017

#25666

Alpha-Red, Jedi Merkurian , unicorn and 6 others like this.
Darkslayer #2 Sabine Wren Fan

Registered:

Mar 26, 2013

Darkslayer, Mar 24, 2017

#25667

SW Saga Fan, EHT, Darth_Omega and 15 others like this.
Ghost Chosen One

Registered:

Oct 13, 2003

Ghost, Mar 24, 2017

#25668

Jedi Merkurian , Violent Violet Menace and Darth Nerdling like this.
Slowpokeking Jedi Master

Registered:

Sep 21, 2012

Juliet316 said: ↑

Because Obama introduced it.
Click to expand...

JoshieHewls said: ↑

Because they demonized it for not being created specifically by a sitting president with an R next to his name.
Click to expand...

Well that was silly, Obama's ACA was partly based on Romneycare right?

Slowpokeking, Mar 24, 2017

#25669

Jedi Merkurian likes this.
Ghost Chosen One

Registered:

Oct 13, 2003

Welcome to the 8 years of the Obama presidency.

Ghost, Mar 24, 2017

#25670

Alpha-Red, Darkslayer, Jedi Merkurian and 6 others like this.
anakinfansince1983 Skywalker Saga/LFL/YJCC Manager Staff Member Manager

Registered:

Mar 4, 2011

45 blames the Democrats, not Paul Ryan, for the ACA repeal failure

LOLwut?

anakinfansince1983 , Mar 24, 2017

#25671

Darkslayer, Jedi Merkurian , Jedi Ben and 1 other person like this.
Slowpokeking Jedi Master

Registered:

Sep 21, 2012

anakinfansince1983 said: ↑

45 blames the Democrats, not Paul Ryan, for the ACA repeal failure

LOLwut?
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There are enough Republicans to pass the bill, it's their own problem.

I was extremely worried about healthcare repeal after the 2016 election, today is a good day to me.

Slowpokeking, Mar 24, 2017

#25672
Bazinga'd Saga / WNU Manager - Knights of LAJ Staff Member Manager

Registered:

Nov 1, 2012

anakinfansince1983 said: ↑

45 blames the Democrats, not Paul Ryan, for the ACA repeal failure

LOLwut?
Click to expand...

Any you expected anything different. Not only can he not except the blame for anything, his disjoined fractured party is never guilty of failing either.

Bazinga'd , Mar 24, 2017

#25673

Alpha-Red, Jedi Merkurian , Juliet316 and 6 others like this.
Violent Violet Menace Manager Emeritus VIP - Former Mod/RSA

Registered:

Aug 11, 2004

Republicans are infallible, don't you know? Their patriotism can not be questioned, even if they send Americans to die in a war based on lies. Their devotion to America is implicit solely based on the R next to their name. Democrats are America-hating sellouts by default, unless the opposite can be proven.

Violent Violet Menace, Mar 24, 2017

#25674

Alpha-Red, Jedi Merkurian , EHT and 7 others like this.
Darth Nerdling Force Ghost

Registered:

Mar 20, 2013

I'm enjoying this schadenfreude!

Thanks Obama!

Darth Nerdling, Mar 24, 2017

#25675

V-2, Jedi Merkurian , Gamiel and 4 others like this.

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