Senate The U.S. Politics thread

Discussion in 'Community' started by Ghost, Dec 6, 2012.

  1. Emperor_Billy_Bob Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 9, 2000
    star 7
    Cuba is an example of an economy we might HAVE to have, but I hardly think it is the economy we all really want.
  2. Rogue_Ten Chosen One

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    Aug 18, 2002
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    well im sure we all want plasma tvs and rainbows to shoot out of our butts but i think the economy we want should ultimately be the one that allows the fullest expression of the human experience while allowing human life to continue in the face of resource scarcity. cuba continues to provide an (imperfect and under great external, political strain) inspiring vision of this kind of future
    Last edited by Rogue_Ten, Mar 1, 2013
  3. Emperor_Billy_Bob Chosen One

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    Aug 9, 2000
    star 7
    But without liberal freedoms...
  4. Rogue_Ten Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 18, 2002
    star 7
    what "liberal freedoms" do you refer to?
  5. Emperor_Billy_Bob Chosen One

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    Aug 9, 2000
    star 7
    It had an authoritarian political structure.
  6. Rogue_Ten Chosen One

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    Aug 18, 2002
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    eh, sort of and you could hardly expect otherwise from a tiny country in the backyard of its greatest enemy, which also happens to be the greatest superpower on earth.

    but then if you look at how decisions are actually made in terms of relevance to the lives of individual cubans, their system is arguably more democratic. local matters are decided by municipal assemblies elected vigorously and often, and their national assembly is selected by that body. in terms of demographic metrics, the cuban national assembly is plainly more representative of the makeup of the cuban electorate than the united states legislature. for instance, women make up ~45% of the national legislature in cuba (3rd in the rankings for women's participation in governance). compare this with ~17% in the united states (78th).

    in light of this i ask you how concerned, for instance, cuban women should be about missing out on our "liberal freedoms" here in the united states? the right to have their basic right to bodily integrity consistently questioned and imperiled by a cabal of old white men trying to score political points, you mean, perhaps?
  7. Emperor_Billy_Bob Chosen One

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    Aug 9, 2000
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    See, Rogue Ten, but how much of that is true and how much is tankie apologetics? How do we know the system works that way?

    I have drifted to the Left considerably, RogueTen, but I consider myself in the Libertarian Socialist vein, not Marxist-Leninist.
    Last edited by Emperor_Billy_Bob, Mar 1, 2013
  8. Rogue_Ten Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 18, 2002
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    well i sourced my figures to wikipedia, which in turn sources them to the notorious stalinists (?) at the interparliamentary union

    i dont see how your current political ideation, good for a laugh tho it may be, has any bearing on whether the cuban people should value real, demonstrable stability in the face of extreme threat and extraordinary (third in the world!) progress on civil rights over meaningless buzzwords like "liberal freedoms"

    for my part i have had school peers (left liberals, not socialists) who have been to cuba and seen their system and been nothing but impressed, so i guess i have that to verify that the cuban system is what all international monitors say it is. this is not some hermit kingdom like north korea (whose inaccessibility is also a bit exaggerated by us media, ive met christian aid workers who have been there, as well, though they were certainly not impressed, (nor should they be)) -- there's tons of people from all over the world who go to cuba every year for tourism and on official international business. its only the US that wont allow you to go there without state department dispensation, (and many get around this by going via mexico and not having their passport stamped on the cuba end)
    Last edited by Rogue_Ten, Mar 1, 2013
  9. Emperor_Billy_Bob Chosen One

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    Aug 9, 2000
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    Right, I buy that they HAVE a national assembly, and that it has women in it. But the Soviet Union had the Supreme Soviet (iirc) and it was a rubber stamp organization. I am not saying bourgeois democracy ala the USA is great, but neither am I willing to jump behind every dictator that hides behind a red flag.
  10. Alpha-Red Force Ghost

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    Apr 25, 2004
    star 5
  11. Juliet316 Chosen One

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    Apr 27, 2005
    star 7
  12. The Loyal Imperial Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 19, 2007
    star 6
    Because every time they change it they increase the odds of the education system turning out more people just like them.
    Violent Violet Menace likes this.
  13. Juliet316 Chosen One

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    star 7
  14. VadersLaMent Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Apr 3, 2002
    star 9
    I wonder if the President thinks Han shot his phaser first.
  15. Rogue_Ten Chosen One

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    Aug 18, 2002
    star 7
  16. VadersLaMent Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Apr 3, 2002
    star 9
  17. Rogue_Ten Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 18, 2002
    star 7
    if you read the article you would find that zahn was neither the first nor by any means the last to reference the jedi meld
  18. Emperor_Billy_Bob Chosen One

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    The EU doesn't count. /discussion
  19. Alpha-Red Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 25, 2004
    star 5
    Yes it does. /discussion
    Point Given and RC-1991 like this.
  20. Emperor_Billy_Bob Chosen One

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    Get back to me in 3 years, when the post-ROTJ EU world has been completely ignored and, dare I say, **** upon. /discussion
    Last edited by Emperor_Billy_Bob, Mar 2, 2013
  21. Ghost Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 13, 2003
    star 6
    Take your pic...






    CPAC has excluded Chris Christie and Bob McDonnell for being too liberal... yet they are inviting Donald Trump.

    Have they given up?

    http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2013/03/05/trump-will-speak-at-cpac/



    Jeb Bush is definitely considering running for President in 2016. The Republicans who have hoped he would run have done so because Jeb has been a liberal and a leader in Immigration reform. A few months ago, he supported a pathway to citizenship. But now, he has a book where he's against a pathway to citizenship, and underlined that in a TV interview yesterday. Basically showing he would run, while flip-flopping and destroying his greatest strength. And now, he seems to have flip-flopped yet again, less than 24 hours later, closer to something like his original position. How embarassing. What's with rich guys from political dynasties and flip-flopping?

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/03/05/jeb-bush-pathway-to-citzenship_n_2810746.html


    There's also been talk that Paul Ryan might announce plans to privatize Medicare, but for everyone, including the retired, becoming even more conservative than he was a year ago.

    http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2013/03/05/paul-ryan-eyes-controversial-medicare-changes/



    And then there's Republicans now fighting against common-sense Tax Reform, which they supported just 2-3 months ago:
    [IMG]








    [IMG][IMG]
  22. Juliet316 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Apr 27, 2005
    star 7
    At a guess, CPAC's probably excluded McDonnell, because A)he's a lame duck Governor (Virginia only allows a Gov. one term at a time in office), and B) He's been very outspoken against the sequestration as because of the damage it'll do to Virginia's economy.
  23. Ghost Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 13, 2003
    star 6
    I think he wants to raise taxes too?

    Still I don't think of McDonnell as a liberal or moderate (at all :p ), and he's still a prominent Republican with presidential ambitions.

    Yet they're inviting Donald Trump...
    Jedi Merkurian likes this.
  24. Juliet316 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Apr 27, 2005
    star 7
    True on McDonnell. Still he was seen meeting with Obama about getting out of sequestration and to CPAC's eyes, consorting with the 'illegal born brown mooslim Prezident' is a no - no.

    Is it sad that Trump at CPAC doesn't surprise me in the least?
    Jedi Merkurian likes this.
  25. Ghost Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 13, 2003
    star 6
    No.

    It doesn't really shock me either, but I still can't understand how the GOP can't understand that they keep digging a deeper and deeper hole for themselves with this nonsense. They need to chill.