Senate The U.S. Politics thread

Discussion in 'Community' started by Ghost, Dec 6, 2012.

  1. anakinfansince1983 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Mar 4, 2011
    star 7
    On CNN right now: "Obama and Boehner meeting at the White House, first meeting on the fiscal cliff since Sunday."

    Wait, what? Sunday was five days ago and this is news?
  2. Ghost Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 13, 2003
    star 6
    People in the media suffer from the need to dramatize everything :p
    Jedi Merkurian likes this.
  3. Rogue_Ten Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 18, 2002
    star 7
    [IMG]

    what do you think you're accomplishing, friend wocky?
    Last edited by Rogue_Ten, Dec 13, 2012
  4. Jabba-wocky Chosen One

    Member Since:
    May 4, 2003
    star 8
    What would you have me do instead, Rogue Number Ten?
  5. Rogue_Ten Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 18, 2002
    star 7
    foment People's Rebellion
    Last edited by Rogue_Ten, Dec 13, 2012
  6. Jabba-wocky Chosen One

    Member Since:
    May 4, 2003
    star 8
    We have no need of a rebellion. The Champion of the People already reigns in Washington, and as we speak he is breaking the back of the opposition.
  7. Ghost Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 13, 2003
    star 6
    Hey @Rogue_Ten, I read your link, and it was enlightening with the history and how connected everything is. The people who started the Right to Work movement were definitely horrendous people, and the violence against the early labor organizers was outrageous (though I did learn about it in history class).

    But it didn't really say anything to demonstrate why Right to Work itself is wrong, other than briefly mentioning the free rider problem.

    Yeah, it said that closed shops helped give labor unions the strength to achieve many of the things we're so gratefuly for today (maybe true, maybe not, I personally don't know)... but nobody serious is going to attack the 40-hour work week now or advocate for children in factories insteads of schools. The article just showed that closed shops may have been a necessary evil in the past, but it didn't give any reason why they're still needed today. It's like African-Americans supporting Republicans because Lincoln freed the slaves.
  8. Jabba-wocky Chosen One

    Member Since:
    May 4, 2003
    star 8
    Ghost what you have to ask yourself is whether you really think there are no further improvements to be made in the state of labor relations at all. That the status quo is perfection. You also have to believe there is a state of permanent stasis, in spite of clear economic changes like the declining prevalence of pensions and the lack of new benefits being brought in to replace them. Otherwise, there's a pretty obvious rationale for why you'd want to continue maintaining an apparatus for workers' advocacy.
  9. Ghost Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 13, 2003
    star 6
    I live in Rhode Island. We've basically been under one-party control in the General Assembly since the Great Depression. And that party has largely been controlled by the labor unions. They bear a lot of the responsibility for why the state has the huge problems we have now.

    Among them the $7 billion unfunded pension liability (likely underestimated, the expected ROI is still too high in my opinion). For reference, we're the smallest state, and we're less than 50% funded (for pensions) when it should be at least 80% funded. Hopefully the Pension Reform that passed last year, under Governor Chafee and Treasurer Gina Raimondo, will begin to diminish with the new hybrid-pension system... although more work still needs to be done at the municipal level. (And yes, I know why the Pension Reform is unpopular, my mom is a teacher so it affects her, and teachers in Rhode Island don't have Social Security.)

    Central Falls went bankrupt a few years ago and into receivership (they also made news with firing all the teachers at the high school, you may have heard of), and is finally about to emerge from it, but other cities and towns face falling into bankruptcy and receivership. Among them is Woonsocket, and Providence itself.
    Mayor Angel Taveras has been very honest about the terrible situation that the capital is in, which his predeccesor David Cicilline tried to cover up with accounting gimmicks, and Buddy Cianci before him.
    (Probably heard of Buddy Cianci before... rising GOP star, went to jail for conspiracy to run a criminal enterprise. As for Cicilline, I volunteered for his campaign in 2010 when Congressman Kennedy retired, but voted against him in this election, first time I voted for a Republican, because of his deception involving Providence's finances. And Mayor Taveras is a Democrat, he had no partisan reason to expose this shortly after he became Mayor)

    So yes, the situation is not perfect, but at least the labor unions in Rhode Island have often been an obstacle to progress.

    You know I'm liberal and I usually support Democrats and liberal issues, but right now we need to allow states to get their fiscal house in order, and it's not like labor unions have done anything useful for anyone lately.

    Still, I don't think "Right to Work" is itself anti-union, if anything it will force the labor unions to change and become more modern and competitive and attractive, and force them to show why people should support them. They need to adapt, and the failure to adapt is why they're been doing so poorly in recent decades. Hopefully this serves as another wake-up call, but this time they get the right message from it. @Jabba-wocky, you say the fight isn't over, there's still more to do. I strongly agree. So it's time for the labor unions to start those fights, instead of merely fighting for self-preservation. To go on the offensive, stop playing defense. Fight for something. Show what they're doing for us lately. Stop being part of the stagnant status quo.
    Last edited by Summer Dreamer, Dec 13, 2012
  10. DarthLowBudget Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 17, 2004
    star 5
    See that's what it looks like, but in reality Obama is a technocrat who's just as interested in supporting corporations as any politician. I'm sure he's not malicious, and I think his intentions are good, but I think they're probably limited by his world view.
    Jarren_Lee-Saber and ShaneP like this.
  11. Valairy Scot Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 16, 2005
    star 5
    From the sounds of it, Rhode Island is suffering from a surfeit of one-party domination and those to whom the party is beholden - that happens a lot whenever one party/ideology holds rein for such a long period of time. In R.I.'s case, it may be "union domination" but elsewhere it could be "something-else domination."

    While right now I don't see the GOP as an effective counterbalance to the Dems, its usually good IMHO to have the dominant party less than 100% certain of achieving all its own goals and stagnating over the years into the status quo. All things need reevaluation from time to time.

    So though I'm essentially "a Dem" because the GOP moved away from my positions, I do think entitlements need to be on the table, that taxes need to be on the table, that nothing is sacrosanct (except the necessary protection of those who shouldn't be abandoned in the name of fiscal responsibility).
    Last edited by Valairy Scot, Dec 13, 2012
    Summer Dreamer likes this.
  12. VadersLaMent Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Apr 3, 2002
    star 9
  13. Juliet316 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Apr 27, 2005
    star 7
    *is mesmerized by dancing Carlton*[face_hypnotized]
  14. VadersLaMent Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Apr 3, 2002
    star 9
    FOX NEWS

    A Fox News contributor got punched in the face by some EVIL union thug at the Michigan union protests. Buuuuut he left out the part where he pushed a guy down before said guy got up and responded to being pushed down by punching him in the face.
  15. Juliet316 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Apr 27, 2005
    star 7
    Last edited by Juliet316, Dec 17, 2012
  16. I Are The Internets Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 20, 2012
    star 7
    Any news on Bat**** Bachman? I'm too scared to look. [face_worried]
  17. Juliet316 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Apr 27, 2005
    star 7
    She narrowly won reelection last month.
  18. I Are The Internets Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 20, 2012
    star 7
    Yup I knew that since I currently reside in her district. I didn't vote for her either. Sigh
  19. ShaneP Ex-Mod Officio

    Member Since:
    Mar 26, 2001
    star 6
    RIP Senator Daniel Inouye.

    He had a great story of a life.

    Thank you sir for helping make our current prosperity possible by serving our nation in WW2.
    Last edited by ShaneP, Dec 17, 2012
    Summer Dreamer likes this.
  20. Ghost Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 13, 2003
    star 6
    [face_flag] RIP [face_flag]

    Inouye was there at Pearl Harbor on December 7th, 1941. He wanted to join the military, but they discriminated against Japanese-Americans. Still, he found a way to join. While in Europe, Inouye led the charge, in which he lost his arm, and for which he was later awarded the Medal of Honor. Until today, Hawaii had been represented by Inouye as long as it was a state.

    This makes Frank Lautenberg (NJ) the last WWII veteran in the Senate, and he will also be the last Senator born in the 1920's once the 113th Congress begins.

    Dianne Feinstein will then be the 2nd-oldest Senator in the 113th Congress. Had no idea she was 79 years old, always thought she was in her late 50's or early 60's.
    Last edited by Summer Dreamer, Dec 17, 2012
  21. Ghost Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 13, 2003
    star 6
  22. AAAAAH Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 8, 2012
    star 4
    yes yes but would she win kentucky by 8 points in 2024 if she was up against republican senators barton tamminy esterhazy or rupert fitzpatrick? or what about roberto hellion-smith? this is what i am contemplating.
  23. Rogue_Ten Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 18, 2002
    star 7
    lol if u think marco rubio will be the nominee. remember when people actually convinced themselves the gop would/should nominate herman cain (you should, it was one of my personal favorite darth ghost moments)? and then they remembered that herman cain is both a racial minority and completely insane? its going to wind up exactly like that
    Last edited by Rogue_Ten, Dec 19, 2012
  24. VadersLaMent Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Apr 3, 2002
    star 9
  25. Ghost Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 13, 2003
    star 6
    Lol it failed epically. Boehner didn't have enough Republican support for it. What a loser.