Senate The US Politics discussion

H.R. McMaster? What a wonderful name.

 

He sounds like he should have written an obviously cloned series of the Aubrey/Maturin novels, which features a conspicuously all-American crewed ship defending Freedom everywhere they go (which of course, is not free).

 

Obama banned waterboarding and other forms of torture, and instead of sending more people to Guantanamo without trial or even military tribunal he began getting people out of there. He was definitely not as good as I hoped on civil liberties, but he wasn't worse than Bush.
Both Democrats and Republicans are flawed, but in different ways, and not to the same magnitude. I've seen and have called out the flaws on the Democratic side too.

The guy is either like Borat, exaggerating and saying things as controversial as possible all as part of a performance to get a reaction, or he's got some serious issues. He says gay people should get back in the closet, yet he's openly gay and always exaggerating gay stereotypes on himself. He's either a performer or has some mental issues, or both.

 

Time for anakinfansince1983 to get out more popcorn and her favourite bottle of wine...

 

Your point is well taken, although I'm not sure if I'm entirely convinced of your conclusion. In any event, you have given me food for thought.

 

If Conservatives are willing to still hail Reagan and Trump as heroes after their comments and actions, and stick to the sides of their beloved Dennis Hastert and Duggar family, I fail to see why this should be the the straw that breaks the camel's back.

 

Hate to break it to you, but he was bud.

The National Defence Authorisation Act (NDAA) and targeted assassinations are two examples. My close, personal and highly successful friend, Obama, also had his own kill list. Not a very liberal thing to have in your pocket.

Btw, please don't get me started on Guantanamo - he did a piss poor job attempting to close it. Remember, he vowed to close it - not slowly reduce numbers. No points for Obama in that area. Nope. None whatsoever.

Then there is the Patriot Act. Opposed it as a Senator, but happily expanded it as President - including increasing surveillance, wiretapping and searching business records. Snowden leaks were about programs created under the Obama Presidency, btw. All that uber-matrix NSA **** can't be blamed on Bush.

So, yeah. Mr-cutie-liberal was far, far worse than Bush on civil liberties.

And all that power is now in the hands of Trump.

 

Milo was always seen as "liberal Trojan horse" because of his sexuality. It's why conservatives hate him.

 

If you go back far enough, the Democrats were solid in the South, heavily supported states' rights over federal laws/programs, and were supportive of slavery and then segregation. But it's irrelevant now because that's not who today's Democrats are (for the most part). Eisenhower created the highway system, yet during Obama's presidency they rejected a national high-speed rail plan. Nixon signed the EPA into existence, and today's Republicans want to dismantle it. The parties don't stay the same.
But there is always opposition from the other party, and today's differences are quite stark: science, healthcare, financial regulation, environmental protections, discrimination, criminal justice, voting, welfare, education, refugees, immigration, minimum wage, attitude towards Muslims, relations with Iran and Cuba, gay marriage and nondiscrimination, alliances, human rights, torture, social security, energy, college costs, childcare, unions, paid leave, contraception, border wall, gun safety, AmeriCorps, etc.

The NDAA is approved every year. Bush also carried out targeted assassinations of terrorists, during the Bush years Seal Team Six was called "Cheney's death squad" by liberals.
Congress didn't authorize him to close it. But he took a lot of people out of it, either into the justice system or into safe havens around the world, and he didn't add to them.
The Patriot Act was reformed but not really expanded... and Bush did all of those things (surveillance, wiretapping, business records). And we knew we weren't outlawing wiretapping with Obama, since he voted for the telecom immunity bill the summer before the election. (And out of all the civil liberties stuff, surveillance is one of the least important. Whether you can be detained without a trial, or tortured, seems much more important to me than the NSA having metadata of phone call logs.)
Like I said, Obama disappointed me on civil liberties, but he's not worse than Bush.

 

I just saw on Facebook Milo is addressing the child pornography on an FB Live video. I watched about 15 seconds, in which time he, of course, denied any allegations. What did we expect for him to say? "Yes of course, I love kiddo porn"? Nah.

The alt-right can really have him.

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The alt-right actually hate him. Have done from the start.

 

You sure about that? A lot of former Ron Paul supporters turned alt-right (those who didnt become Libertarians or Anarchists) and, from what I knew before I blocked them on my FB, were Milo lovers. Now this is a small sampling, of course, as it's just my experience and in social media only.

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DanielUK, you needn't waste your breath.

You know how we both have people in our country who are "lifelong Labour", and would support Blair or Corbyn even though they're worlds apart in policy because that's their tribe?

You're dealing with the same sort of mentality among our American friends here. In their heads, the narrative of "Democrats are good guys, Republicans are bad guys" is so deeply ingrained that it's inconceivable anything to the different could be thought by any "sane" or "intelligent" person.

 

Oh, so we're trading which civil liberties are perfectly fine to violate? Oh goodie, is this like Pokemon Go!?

But, you fail to point out one thing - Obama built upon Bush's record. You can stand outside and point at the foundations until the cows come home, but Obama built the house upon them. Not Bush.

I'm perfectly sure. The white supremacy, which is the core of the Alt-Right, hate him. Most of radical right, too; to them, Milo was a wannabe celebrity who used them for fame. He even questioned if he was a conservative or not on Bill Maher.

 

No, I'm saying in my opinion which ones are more offensive. Directly affecting a person's life through imprisonment/torture is worse than the NSA keeping metadata of all your phone calls, in my opinion.

Yes, Bush laid the foundation, and Obama did some more with the surveillance while banning torture and stopping sending people to Guantanamo without trial or tribunal (and taking people out of Guantanamo).

Like I said... Obama disappointed me on civil liberties. But in my opinion, he's not worse than Bush in this area.

That explains why I've voted for 2 Republicans for Congress in 2012/2014 and an Independent for governor! And why I criticize Democrats (like Obama and Hillary) and progressive activists when I have disagreed with them!

 

Ender Sai I'm neither left or right, if you were referring to me. I was asking a legit question. I never followed Milo...I knew who he was and that I didn't like his ideas.

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That is because we Americans are out of this world lazy and stupid, and our for-profit media makes sure we stay that way.

Me? I'm glad that I'm just smart to enough to know I'm an idiot.

 

Let me explain this way, using British politics, the consequences of always thinking your side is always right.



This is the House of Lords, debating Brexit today. That lady in the black suit, white shirt, giving Labour Lords the evil eye is our Prime Minister. Theresa May. Her party, the Conservatives, have an 18 point lead of Labour (the opposition); every voter group (age, gender, class) backs her as PM. Nearly every region. She is trusted on every issue. She is the most popular politician and current polling makes her the most popular post-war PM.

OMG! Greatest politician ever? No. The Labour party thinks 100% like you Ghost, "my side is okay, but the other people are WORSE!"

Voters are not interested. Heck, even their traditional working class voters prefer the Tories. Why? Because Labour refused to admit they've made mistakes and keep talking about how the Tories are much, much, much worse. The public have stopped listening. The party is dead. It has become a far left protest movement that has alienated every sane mind in the land. They've even made Green politicians look liberal.

Btw, why is May in the Lords? Her position is so secure in the United Kingdom, she has publicly threatened to abolish the House of Lords if they do not pass the Brexit bill. That's how much power the Tories now have the UK. The Prime Minister can literally walk into the Lords and directly challenge them to defy her.*

And all this happened because the Labour party refused to admit they'e wrong and listen to anyone, apart from themselves.

That's what I've been trying to explain to my American cousins in the last 24 hours or so. Pointing fingers results in failure.

*It is the political equivalent of the President of the United States threatening to remove the Senate, if his or her policies are not acted upon.

 

Ghost you are willing to give a massive invasion of privacy for means that remain unclear over in practice a very small number of people being tortured. Just consider the scope of the impact.

And here's a fun fact - did you know when applying for a visa to visit the US, you are asked now to give your social media account details? Literally, please tell us which FB profile is yours, how we can find you on the wilderness that is Google+, and what's your LinkedIn, so we can do stuff you won't know about?

You have no idea what the data might be used for. And to be honest, knowing what I know of intelligence analysis, probably very little will be scrutinised by human eyes. That's not the point though. You can't tell me torturing a few dozen people is worse than potentially profiling - and let's just call it like it is - Arabs because a second cousin is a radical and therefore, they're all radicals.

Given the obsession with indiscriminate drone warfare, and SIGINT/ELINT, it's not hard to conclude that the wide ranging data net is underpinning intelligence assessments that identify prospective terrorists.

Your supposed independence (good job given how all the Rhode Island districts went Democratic, meaningful votes there) would mean something if you weren't giving someone a pass for the flimsiest reasons ever.

 

Did you read my last post??

You're really targeting the wrong person for this.

Did I say I approved? No, I said I didn't approve.

You may disagree with my opinion. But my opinion remains that torture and indefinite detention without trial/tribunal are worse. Agree to disagree.

We just elected our first Democratic governor in almost 30 years. And I think Independents almost outnumber Democrats here... and Republicans have seen gains, see the link to show how well Trump did this November, it mirrors the country. http://imgur.com/NN7eQ5I Trump probably keeps picking people for his staff here because Rhode Island Republicans are the Trump kind of Republicans.

 

Oh, how sweet, Ender's trying to be a mentor.

Look at all those "likes" he's giving out! He wants a friend!


Warning! Daniel! Warning! You're Anakin to Ender's Palpatine, and you know how that ended up.

That's great advice to someone new to these threads, Ender -- dismiss valid arguments of people by acting as if they are incapable of rational thought -- even though Ender is clearly making a reductive argument which contradicts his former comments, then ceded the topic of domestic politics altogether, then moved the goalposts, then cherry-picked a few points, and then resorted to name-calling and ignoring those arguing with him.

Oh, and there was this gem in his criticism of the US: "The bullying, dear god, the bullying."

If there was ever a bully on these's boards, it's Ender. (Great self-awareness there, Ender.)

You can do better. He'll only keep you around as long as you agree with everything he says.

He's only using you for your support. When he gets what he wants, he'll crush you. You know it.

 

I did. Hence why I referenced you.

Under the sarcasm, he makes some valid points.

TheAvengerButton

Labour put their own concerns above voters and were punished.

 

Ghost Apparently as an American you are stupid and lazy. So says appleseed and he speaks for all Americans.

 

Hey. Consider me a curious American who remains ignorant of things across the pond who wants to correct that.

Can you elaborate on what you mean when you said: