Senate The UK Politics discussion

Except his father never intended that?

 

And Daddy's closest advisers all warned W against going in.

 

Rats, beaten to it re: Bush Sr

 

these were just adjustments to benefits tho* , they can hardly be compared to the goliaths of actually creating the welfare system or the setting up of the NHS .

.*(and I'm pretty sure a lot of those figures would be contested by different analysts)

Blair did do some good things ,no doubt , and some of those changes to benefits were very good , he was Tory-lite , he appealed to the middle-classes because he wasn't going to re-nationalise stuff or raise their taxes , he played the political game very well. He was slimy and a smart .

but he was also scum , he was the one in charge that declared he had all the info he needed to take us to war , he's a liar and a warmonger , he should be rotting in prison .

.

 

Been at the pub, gez?

You're not American, so struggling with the basics shouldn't be your MO.

Being redistributive is not impacted by setting up the NHS (Labour, WWII) and welfare state (Liberals). It's about distributing the wealth of society.

It's reasonably simple.

 

Sanders policy on trade and taxation makes Corbyn look like a liberal. Which is quite the achievement.

 

Blair was of course also around in a very economically favourable period that meant Labour had money to spend without making difficult choices.

 

I'd argue they overspent during that period too.

 

Both of your posts very much reflect the hard sell for the last seven years of that exact picture, which is certainly testimony to the political PR skills employed by the Conservatives but little else, as at the time they supported both Iraq and didn't take much issue with Labour's budgets year on year either.

After the crash and the big spend to keep the banks afloat, they clearly saw an opportunity to reinvent their enemies as mad spenders and did so very successfully.

This was for the last election in 2015, but it's still a good set of charts:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...t-show-how-they-coped-last-time-10173328.html

EDIT: This is so very ****ing stupid:

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...mand-to-agree-divorce-bill-before-trade-talks

Excellent, the Guardian decided to join in the throwing of lit turds with that headline, God only knows what the tabloids will phrase it as.

 

You'll all have seen Piers Morgan telling Michael Gove off.
I can't help it guys, but I pity Gove. He looks so lost. A little boy that can't find his mum. He may be an ass but I just want to protect him from the big bad world out there.

 

No I'm not American (how unusual for you to mention americans )

I never actually mentioned redistribution , my comments were in part in reference to the exchange between you and Jabba-wocky who asked what Blair did that rivaled things like the NHS .


btw - weren't things like child benefit given to the rich as well as poor .?

.

 

The NHS is universal welfare, too. Your point?

 

Yeah, benefits were issued without means testing, which isn't as bad an idea as it sound once you consider the cost of administering means-testing for millions relative to the cost of just issuing the benefit. The latter tends to be cheaper overall!

Meanwhile, despite a wafer-thin, extremely dodgy majority Davis is acting as if it's a super-majority to leave the single market, customs union and just about everything else and to hell with whatever damage results to the country. Remember, these are politicians that sell themselves as Conservative embarked on the most reckless act of sheer political and economic destruction in ages.

 

EU will stall Brexit until Labour gets in. They'll change the March 2019 deadline.

 

Oh come on.

We both know that the Remain campaign failed because it had nobody who could speak to working class voters on their terms. Corbyn's silence on the matter was tacit support for the leave vote, and so it is not the Conservatives alone who are managing this ruinous task.

Public showmanship tactics aside, the situation you're going into now would not be materially different if Labour was managing it.

 

Oh yeah, Remain went for macroeconomics to sell the EU when it should have gone for football travel costs and mobile phone charges.

But even a Tory would probably rate Starmer above Davis for the EU negotiations.

The other problem is I don't think we're going to get the outbreak of sanity we both hope for, that Davis is a 'does what it says on the tin' politician, although I suspect he wouldn't commit to that either and keep what it says on the tin secret.

 

Yay, Brexit bills - anyone got any positive spin for this deranged wish list?

 

Nice choice of wardrobe, Your Majesty...

 

well I mean, come on. the referendum was a massive 52/48 split in favour, followed up by an election whereby the Tories were forceably and blatantly told a hard Brexit is not in the public's wishes. i mean why wouldn't they press on as billigerently as ever?

 

Though, weren't there next-day polls that asked if people had Bregrexits and would they vote differently, in which the Leave vote went up?

Barking mad.

Could you imagine if the best your country had to offer was a man in a Brooks Bros suit, who spoke in long-winded terms about hope and freedoms and liberty and "values"?

In other words, toast to Her Maj for being better than merely presidential.

 

Also, on the topic of easy targets:

 

Seems like we're finally getting some much needed movement on EU citizens living in the UK (and hopefully UK citizens living in Europe will soon follow)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-40376083

 

Based on that I should be in the clear by the time UK actually leaves the EU. And it looks like the application form will change from a complicated paper one to an easier online thing.

I think that's a reason to be cautiously optimistic.

 

I was never in any doubt that you'd have any problems.. But its good to hear its brought you some peace of mind.