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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

Senate The UK Politics discussion

Discussion in 'Community' started by Ender Sai, Jan 6, 2015.

  1. LAJ_FETT

    LAJ_FETT Tech Admin (2007-2023) - She Held Us Together star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    May 25, 2002
    Can't say I'm sorry to see Livingstone suspended - I can't stand him.
     
    Ender Sai likes this.
  2. V-2

    V-2 Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Dec 10, 2012
    I quite like Livingstone. His voice is very irritating and the ADL/Godwin thing follows him around like a wet fart, but I don't disagree with very much of what he says and what he stands for.

    The people who periodically accuse him of anti-Semitism are proper numpties. The guy has spoken at more anti-Nazi and anti-fascist rallies than all his critics combined. It's just ridiculous to call an anti-fascist campaigner an anti-Semite, but the press being the press (and party politics being party politics) we get this crap coming up over and over again. Criticism of Israel is NOT criticism of Judaism, furthermore criticism of Judaism isn't even anti-Semitism (but neither Shah nor Livingstone criticised Judaism as far as I can tell). Livingstone's biggest crime is his failure to realise when he's being trolled.

    It's utterly stupid to accuse Labour, the internationalist party - the socialist party - the Marxist party ffs, of anti-semitism if you have even a superficial understanding of politics. But here we are in the UK of 2016 where the parties with the loudest voice are actually those with a history of racism (e.g. "If you want a n***** for a neighbour vote Liberal or Labour" (c) The Conservative and Unionist Party, "I don't like the negros" (C) UKIP) and they get to accuse those fighting for progress of the very thing they're rightfully hated for.

    **** this system and all who take pleasure from it.
     
    epic likes this.
  3. ShaneP

    ShaneP Ex-Mod Officio star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Mar 26, 2001

    When will people learn that while criticism of Israel can be construed as anti-Zionist it doesn't mean it is anti-semitic? There are plenty of Jewish scholars here in the U.S. who are critical of the cozy relationship with Israel but are constantly conflated as also being anti-semitic. That is laughable. I wouldn't even put them up as anti-Zionist as many don't openly oppose the existence of Israel but merely a recalibration of the relationship.
     
  4. Ender Sai

    Ender Sai Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Feb 18, 2001
    Of course you don't mind Livingstone and see no issue. You are quite right about the tendency to stupidly conflate criticism of Israel with criticism of a religion, but it's hard to see how inferring Hitler was a Zionist - which is what Red Ken did - is an especially good idea. It's not. It's inflammatory without directly saying anything inflammatory itself, because it's a cowardly inference.

    Still, you could no doubt have some sort of strike or protest, hopefully during which you'll be paid, in solidarity no?
     
    G-FETT likes this.
  5. G-FETT

    G-FETT Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Aug 10, 2001
    Ken claimed that Hitler supported Zionism "before he went mad" and killed six million Jews - So there's the implication that when he wrote Mein Kampf in 1925 and during his assent to power, Hitler was a perfectly sane, reasonable and rational person...

    The implication is also that whilst murdering six million people might have been going a tad too far, the forced deportation of Jews from Europe to the middle east (apparently Hitlers original "solution" for dealing with Jews - Though there's a lot of dispute about this with many historians claiming Hitler's preferred solution was always extermination) would have been perfectly acceptable.

    In any case quite what point he was trying to make bringing up Hitler Viz a Viz modern day anti-semitism in the Labour Party I have no idea...

    I think it's reasonable to say that Ken Livingstone lost the plot yesterday and it would have been far better if he'd stayed in his garden.

    As for John Mann MP, maybe a few weeks "gardening leave" might be helpful for him too. ;)

    Some better news for Labour in the latest polling for London Mayoralty with Sadiq Khan taking a 20% lead:

    40% Zac vs 60% Sadiq

    http://survation.com/9448-2
     
  6. Darth Punk

    Darth Punk JCC Manager star 7 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Nov 25, 2013
    Cassetteboy vs Jeremy Hunt
     
  7. V-2

    V-2 Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Dec 10, 2012
    Not Cassetteboy's best work. Aren't they working for someone like Trinity or Grauniad now?

    G-FETT - you'd have to work quite hard at being stupid enough to take that 'implication' seriously. Beyond stupid, really. To the point that it would be mean to draw attention to it.
     
  8. Lord Vivec

    Lord Vivec Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Apr 17, 2006
    I'm reading about how close London was to having the top two candidates in the mayoral race be Muslim. The second place in the Conservative Primary is Muslim and the Labour candidate is Muslim as well. Just think about the lost rustled jimmies.
     
  9. Jedi Ben

    Jedi Ben Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Jul 19, 1999
    Well, Barnet have seriously screwed up on their electoral services.

    How much of an impact it has beyond some very bad media headlines is unknown at present. If the count is very close, it could be very significant.
     
  10. Lord Vivec

    Lord Vivec Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Apr 17, 2006
    Who is ready for Londonistan?

    [​IMG]
     
  11. DarthPhilosopher

    DarthPhilosopher Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Jan 23, 2011
  12. Rogue_Ten

    Rogue_Ten Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Aug 18, 2002
    as the bodega boys have pointed out, WHIIIIIITE GENOCIIIIDDDDEEE would be a wonderful name for a speed metal project
     
  13. Point Given

    Point Given Manager star 7 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Dec 12, 2006
    You'd think they'd have experience with that given the Anglo-Saxon invasions, the Jutes, the Normans...
     
    Gamiel likes this.
  14. DarthPhilosopher

    DarthPhilosopher Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Jan 23, 2011
    Suppose they would say the Anglo-Saxons, Jutes and Normans were white... on the other hand technically the first Europeans were black...

    God racism is stupid.
     
  15. FatBurt

    FatBurt Sex Scarecrow Vanquisher star 6

    Registered:
    Jul 21, 2003
    Daily Mail readers will be panicking now.
     
  16. G-FETT

    G-FETT Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Aug 10, 2001
    Zac Goldsmiths campaign has been shocking and frankly the Tories deserve to lose London (which they are going to do in a few hours)

    I notice up in Scotland the SNP is going to win handsomely again while Labour is going to come third behind the Conservatives! Who would have though that possible 15 years ago...
     
    Ender Sai and Jedi Ben like this.
  17. V-2

    V-2 Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Dec 10, 2012
    Goldsmith's campaign was racist, and he's not shaken off his image as an out of touch toff. Boris is almost a parody of 'Tory Scum', but Goldsmith's brand of out of touch elite toff arrogance was less endearing. It's encouraging to see these divisive campaigns fail in recent years (George Galloway's campaign was quite similar and saw him righteously crushed).

    I'm kind of optimistic about the EU referendum following the council results. Farage and the other racists didn't do half as well as the Lib Dems in England, and the LDs seem to be on the road back to legitimacy. The mainstream pro EU parties seem to be holding up pretty well. Not that the majority of council voters opting for the big 3.5 indicates a pro-EU majority, but a UKIP/BNP landslide at this point would have given me the willies.
     
  18. Jedi Ben

    Jedi Ben Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Jul 19, 1999
    Yeah, I'm quite liking the result that now looks to be on the cards, not least as it means Lynton 'Wizard of Oz' Crosby has had his arse well and truly hammered.
     
  19. V-2

    V-2 Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Dec 10, 2012
    The knighthood probably takes a bit of the edge off.
     
  20. Jedi Ben

    Jedi Ben Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Jul 19, 1999
    The speed with which people have turned on the Zac campaign within the tories is pretty stunning.
     
  21. duende

    duende Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 28, 2006
    love the new mayor whining and crying like he lost.
     
  22. FatBurt

    FatBurt Sex Scarecrow Vanquisher star 6

    Registered:
    Jul 21, 2003
    It was won by a Muslim ergo it's the end of the world etc...



    The Daily Mail will have a field day with this and it's racist readership will lap anything they write up. We'll have Sharia law in place by the end of next week.
     
  23. Lord Vivec

    Lord Vivec Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Apr 17, 2006
  24. FatBurt

    FatBurt Sex Scarecrow Vanquisher star 6

    Registered:
    Jul 21, 2003
    Yup, an asshat proves he's an asshat.
     
    Jedi Ben likes this.
  25. Ender Sai

    Ender Sai Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Feb 18, 2001
    Donkeyhat, Fatburt?

    Or did you have a profound stroke and the damage to your brain has meant you speak English like a child or a handicapped person?

    The Cousins treat English like a priest treats an altar boy, but there's no reason for us to wallow in that.

    Great outcome for London - as a global city I'd have thought they'd be above idiotic scare-mongering and they were. The result for the Greens - third place - suggests that the message of division from the Tories was resounding rejected.

    Rightly so too, they should be better than that.

    As Khan said in his acceptance speech, it's the greatest city in the world. I agree, but doubly so now.
     
    Jedi Ben likes this.