Senate The UK Politics discussion

Discussion in 'Community' started by Ender Sai, Jan 6, 2015.

  1. DANNASUK Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 1, 2012
    star 6
    Among the Kingdoms.

    I don't believe England should be regionalised; give us our own Parliament and Executive.
  2. G-FETT Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 10, 2001
    star 7
    My main problem with the EU is the lack of accountability and democracy within the EU. To me it seems like the worst of political clubs where failed politicians and non-entities go off and earn vast amounts of money from the public purse with very little accountability in the process.

    Look no further than the appointment of the absurd Mr Jean Claude Juncker????????????? As EU Commission President.

    The main issue with the wider electorate seem's to be immigration. To be honest I'm not that concerned about immigration. I see the movement of people to and from the UK as a vital part of a robust and prospering economy. The issue was really one of management from the last government, which was poor. But the overall idea of Polish of Germans or Greeks coming to the UK to live and earn and spend money is not one I have a problem with. I actually don't think our economy and welfare state can function without the contribution of immigrants, to be honest.

    I think we should have a referendum on the EU. The last (and only) referendum on the EU was in 1975 and I believe anybody born from around 1955 onwards has never had a say on whether they agree with our continued participation. Given nearly all referendums end up with the populace sticking with the status quo I think it's about 80% probable we'd end up voting YES to stay in, but nevertheless it's still a question that should be asked, IMO.

    As far as the Euro goes, they will keep the show on the road for a bit longer. I believe the next big crunch will come in October but don't underestimate the desire of the EU to defend the Euro at all costs, LOL!
    Last edited by G-FETT, Jan 9, 2015
  3. DANNASUK Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 1, 2012
    star 6
    This.

    The EU, especially during the Euro crisis, has shown a utter contempt for national democracy and -especially in the case of Cyprus- behaved more or less like a totalitarian state.
    Darth Punk likes this.
  4. Darth Punk Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 25, 2013
    star 6
    berlusconi. whatever you thought of him, he was democratically elected. he calls merkel an unf***able lard arse". within a few weeks, the ECB allowed italian bond yields to spike, forcing him out.
    papandreau, calls for a referendum in greece. the germans were like "george, step into my office". within a week his party (pasok) called off the referendum - no democracy allowed thank you very much.

    i could go on
    Last edited by Darth Punk, Jan 9, 2015
  5. Jabba-wocky Chosen One

    Member Since:
    May 4, 2003
    star 9
    We're painting Berlusconi as the victim of some sort of grand conspiracy, now? Come on. The guy was massively corrupt, and owed his political power to a series of admitted cases of bribery. There's no martyr here.
  6. LAJ_FETT Tech Admin and Collecting/Lucasfilm Ltd Mod

    Administrator
    Member Since:
    May 25, 2002
    star 9
    Main problem with the EU is it tries to micromanage the member countries. Things that should be left up to the national governments are being forced on members by the EU. One recent example is putting a cap on energy use by new vacuum cleaners, with things like ovens and hair dryers in the pipeline.. Hardly a matter for the EU. In the UK the fishing industry has been wrecked by EU regulations. It's one thing for the EU being a single market for trade (the bill that was sold to the British public before the only referendum). It's a totally different thing we are lumbered with now.
    Last edited by LAJ_FETT, Jan 9, 2015
  7. slightly_unhinged Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 28, 2014
    star 4
    EU agricultural policy is massively destructive.
    Mar17swgirl likes this.
  8. V-2 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 10, 2012
    star 4
    Re: EU
    Things I like about the EU (in no particular order):
    Peace and prosperity since the 50s
    Democratisation* of member states (and potential member states)
    Freedom of movement
    Court of Human Rights
    Court of Justice
    Health and Safety Gone Mad
    Gay bananas
    Tyskie

    Things I would like the EU to do:
    Push the USA out of NATO (and/or) form a unified European army devoted to humanitarian relief, but more than capable of peacekeeping* and pushing Russia out of Ukraine....
    Get serious about the space program, fund massive scale science projects to further embarrass the USA after the success of CERN, build a deep space array, establish a moon base, mine the crap out of some asteroids, etc.
    Assume authority and responsibility for member states environmental/climate change policy, removing it from the election cycle trap
    Ditto for international diplomacy, free the member states from sock puppetry by the hands of America, Saudi Arabia, Russia, China and whoever else
    Massive constitutional reform - edit the constitution itself to a manageable length, re-establish mandate of the individual aspects of the legislative procedure through consensus of member states, streamline the commission, council and parliament, avoid the civil service lifer trap, and restrict the size and lifespan of quangos*
    Cease to be quite so corporation-friendly, provide a meaningful alternative to the oncoming capitalist dystopia
    Make me president for life

    *sorry for the ugly words
  9. GrandAdmiralJello Comms Admin + Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque

    Administrator
    Member Since:
    Nov 28, 2000
    star 10
    The European Court of Human Rights is an organ of the Council of Europe and has little to do with the European Union (at least as of now; the EU is trying to integrate some aspects of the court into its functioning).

    The ECtHR came out of the European Convention on Human Rights rather than Maastricht and its progeny (or the EEC predecessors).

    But yes, Strasbourg is nice.

    Also lol@the NATO stuff. That would require European states to actually pay for collective defense, something they've not got the least inclination to do. Europe prefers a hodgepodge of national militaries because it's easier to control spending.


    Missa ab iPhona mea est.
    V-2 likes this.
  10. V-2 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 10, 2012
    star 4
    Yeah but it's all just Europe innit.
  11. GrandAdmiralJello Comms Admin + Moderator Communitatis Litterarumque

    Administrator
    Member Since:
    Nov 28, 2000
    star 10
    Well, one of them has Turkey and Russia. :p


    Missa ab iPhona mea est.
  12. V-2 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 10, 2012
    star 4
    Both of which are in Europe, but that wasn't my point.
  13. halibut Ex-Mod

    Member Since:
    Aug 27, 2000
    star 8
    I want the EU to ban non-European countries from participating in the Eurovision Song Contest. And to make the six nations rugby tournament back to the four nations.
    slightly_unhinged likes this.
  14. FatBurt Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 21, 2003
    star 6
    I want it to ban Eurovision
  15. V-2 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 10, 2012
    star 4
    I want the EU to deport those who dislike Eurovision.
    halibut likes this.
  16. FatBurt Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 21, 2003
    star 6
  17. ShaneP Ex-Mod Officio

    Member Since:
    Mar 26, 2001
    star 7

    Mostly because they've never been able to reform the subsidies of the national governments. Led to a perception of favoritism among some members at the expense of other members.

    I agree with most of your EU likes(except for Bananas. Too much sugar).

    But the bolded NATO one….do you really think the EU is going to forego the benefit of having the U.S. military to free ride on and instead want to pay for all their military expenses they would then have to assume?

    For one thing, the states would have a hard time agreeing to form a collective military unit without the cohesion of U.S. military support.
    Secondly, NATO has a very good record of collective security. Why mess with something that has largely worked?

    I think the idea of a EU army is wishful thinking right now. Maybe one day? Not now or in the near future.

    ShaneP said:
    The success of NATO as a collective security arrangement might continue to foster further integration of military forces in Europe and the west as a whole.




    Darth Punk:
    "unless poots calls their bluff, and exposes their deficiencies"

    Oh believe he does want to do that. He wants to delegitimize and roll back all of the things he blames for bringing down the old Soviet and Warsaw Pact, NATO included. Eyes on the Baltic states.
    Last edited by ShaneP, Jan 9, 2015
  18. ShaneP Ex-Mod Officio

    Member Since:
    Mar 26, 2001
    star 7
    opps DP.
    Last edited by ShaneP, Jan 9, 2015
  19. Ender Sai Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 18, 2001
    star 10
    Is Turkey really Europe, though? I mean, like Germany, they have a genocide on their balance sheet but the Germans are contrite about it.
  20. Point Given Mod of Literature and Community

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Dec 12, 2006
    star 6
    The English have one too but everyone handwaves it away as just a famine.
  21. Darth Guy Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 16, 2002
    star 10
    Germany has two genocides on their balance sheet.

    If you consider the famines in the British Raj caused or exacerbated by colonial exploitation to be genocide (which I think is fair enough), there are a lot more than one.
    Last edited by Darth Guy, Jan 9, 2015
  22. Alpha-Red Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 25, 2004
    star 5
    Wouldn't creating a EU military require the member states to hand over a whole lot more of their sovereignty to Brussels...which is something that said states aren't very keen on doing at the moment?
  23. Ender Sai Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 18, 2001
    star 10

    Can you demonstrate an intent, in whole or in part, to destroy a population?
  24. Point Given Mod of Literature and Community

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Dec 12, 2006
    star 6
    I say the lack of an food export ban and the Whig policies in general demonstrate the intent. Not to say all the English government attempted to do so. Peel, for one, tried to help, but his successor and his cabinet threw it all to the wind. (I forget whether it was Russell or Palmerston)
  25. Ender Sai Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 18, 2001
    star 10
    So to be clear, you would argue that the intent was specifically to kill?