PT The Unifying Force: The Expanded Universe Solving Plot Holes Prequel Edition

Ahhh those pesky plotholes that plague the Star Wars saga as a whole. Yes I say the saga because the OT does have a few plotholes but we wont get into that here. This is the PT forum.

Now this thread isnt a PT hating or bashing one, its a chance to take a constructive look at the PT films and look at its plot and think for a moment. Forgetting the tv, the novels, the comics, the video games or any EU. What plot points were left unresolved? What issues should have been resolved in the films?

To me among the most important plotpoints is the Syfo Dyas one, which is kinda forgotten mid ATOC. ( left to novels and comics)
Also the Rebellion origin should have explored. ( left to deleted scenes and novels)
Darth Plagueis. ( left to novels)

There are many others, but I would like for you guys to think about those storylines the EU explored tha the films shouldve addressed.


So what do you guys think?

 

The entirety of the Clone Wars themselves. We see the very beginning and the very end of that war, but not the middle.

 

the Sifo Dyas thing shouldn't have been left to the EU

especially after Lucas says it will be addressed in the next film in the AOTC commentary track

I (the viewer of a film) should not have to buy extra material to explain plot points imo.

 

The how was Jango Fett selected to be the clone template question. I played ps2 Bounty Hunter, and it tells you how it went down, but is that really what happened?

 

It was resolved in a novel. Just as the remainder of Luke's Jedi training was resolved in a novel. I know that many of you don't want to hear this, but complaining about storylines that were resolved or answered in the novels and not in the PT movies strikes me as hypocritical. Especially since the same happened with some OT storylines.

 

the OT makes sense in terms of storyline and you don't ask yourself "hold on, so who was that now?"

the Sifo Dyas thing was to me handled all wrongly IMO.

 

Not everyone reads the novels, though. So, they might not know that or particularly find that valid. I'm just supposed to accept that my fave OT character Tarkin is a *dog* because some EU book says so? Um, I don't think so.

 

Yes it is. Cut scenes in video games are C-canon, and according to LFL, C-canon sources are valid unless directly contradicted by the films.

 

Really? Do I have to bring up the Leia/Han romance that sprang from no where in ESB? Or Luke's Jedi skills that seemed surprisingly polished at the beginning of ROTJ, despite the fact that he never bothered to return to Yoda to finish his training? Did any of the movies ever show how Vader learned about Luke's identity?

Spare me the excuses for the OT. In it's own way, it's just as flawed.

 

He never said the OT wasn't flawed, Rush.

 

When did I say the OT was the holy grail of films?

And as I said Sifo Dyas was supposed to be addressed, said so by Lucas himself,

I'm not into EU, shouldn't have to be either to be told a plot point.

If a casual fan asked me "so was Dooku pretending to be this Sifo Dyas guy then?"

it'd pretty bad form when a fan of the franchise has to say "no clue, I believe one of the books mentions it though *shrugs*

Edit: thank you DD

 

Yeah I remember seeing the trailer for AOTC and thinking that we were going to experience the CW in that movie. A few battles if not the entirety of the war.

 

For what? The PT only? Or the entire saga?

 

all of it, the OT, PT

any set of films in a saga or trilogy

 

We have the television show to see the middle part of the Clone Wars.

 

Yes, I am aware of that. But the OP's point was that the movies themselves don't show it.

 

There wasn't enough room for the prequels to show the Clone Wars at its entirety. Not when it has to address other issues like Anakin turning to the dark side, the Jedi Order being destroyed, the creations of both Darth Vader and the Empire, the births of Luke and Leia, and all the rest.

 

I thought so, but what about the people who didn't play the game? Things like this is why IMO the PT didn't bring in the number of new fans that it could have. I already loved Star Wars, I play the games, read books, wookipeedia etc., but for other people the PT can still be hard to follow.

 

Who really cares about the plot holes in such a lousy narrative?

What needs fixing are much much deeper than simple potholes. The entirety of the prequels need to be restructured and redone. They're an incoherent mess.

But okay, the biggest problem I have with the prequels is the sheer stupidity of Anakin's turn to the dark side. So one minute he's discovered that Palpatine is evil, the next minute he's deciding on his free will to murder little children so that he might save Padme even though she's perfectly fine and even though Sidious, who he's just discovered is the big evil, really doesn't know how to save her but only promises that he might have a small sliver of a chance of saving her. Maybe.

I don't know if that's a plot hole or just a fundamental shot at the heart of the entire thing.

 

That was always one of my (many) issues with it.

You get busy killing everyone that you know and have worked with, including your best friend, because someone I know and killed earlier might have known a way to save your wife who you think might die which I don't actually know right now, but we can read up on it later on after you've murdered everyone.

 

Apparently you didnt read the first post. I commented the OT is covered with the same problems. That's why this the prequel edition of the thread buuuddyyyy.


Also please take note this is a PT forum so any discussion should remain within the PT. Okay? Great.

And yes Dooku-Darklighter, Tarkin should have been a more prominent character in the PT.

 

How are any of those necessary or considered plot holes?

I could agree with the whole Syfo Dyas issue, but we learn all we need to know regarding the creation of the clones in AotC: Dooku was behind it all. We know that Syfo Dyas died around the time Dooku left the order, Dooku hired Jango to be the clone template, thus he was the one who asked for the creation of the clones (probably under the identity of Syfo Dyas, whom he probably killed).

I'm not sure he's arguing that. And why should he be more prominent? Where is the necessity?

 

If you look carefully I do mention plotholes but also plotpoints, which are left unresolved in the Saga.
Among the many plot points left unresolved was Plagueis which the EU then makes a game, a tv series, a comic book run, or a novel about said plot point or plot hole. That's what this thread is about.

If he is not necesarry why make a little cameo at the end of ROTS, Lucas was lazy, Tarkin should have been more relevant. He is one of the OT character I think should have appeared in the PT, not as a cameo.

Tarkin is a major player in galactic affairs, he isnt CHewie whose cameo works because its just that a character who has no major play until the moment he joins the Rebellion.

But Tarkin, Tarkin is a regional govenor. In a way the Head of the Govenors, who is this character, who is this authorative being that even Vader obeys. That is an interesting character to study in the PT. He needn't be a protagonist. But if Lucas gave Chewie a small role why not give Tarkin one too, it isnt that hard!

Also we take for granted some of the things that happen in the films. Because the EU explains them but some moments are left unresolved leaving huge holes to fill with a thousand EU material.

If you think the Saga (or the PT) makes complete sense without the EU then ok, that's your opinion. But to me it doesnt make complete sense. And though the EU is very fun, the saga should be logical within its own context. Because you can't expect people to watch the thousands and thousands of EU material. And read every Q&A of Hidalgo, Lucas et all to make sense of the continuity.

 

Most of the, "plot holes," being discussed here are meant to be resolved using simple inference by any semi astute viewer. For instance, the viewer doesn't need to know the exact training regimen Luke engaged in between ESB and ROTJ for his skills to progress. You already know he is the son of Vader, and strong in the Force. Does it take that much of a leap to understand that time passed and he practiced? Not really.

The movies are really meant to stand alone. All the rest, books, comics, and TV are a take it or leave it proposition. Meant to be enjoyed, or not, by the SW fan. But this notion that you need them to fill in supposed plot holes is just not true.

There has been some interesting talk as of late regarding canon on Twitter from Leland Chee, manager of the Lucasfilm Storygroup. Definitely some suggestion that Disney will steamroll right over some of the existing EU stuff and rewrite SW history as they please.

 

Yes I want them to stand alone. That is precisely what I am arguing, but inference alone cant save a few of the leaps that take place. Example in the OT: How does Vader find out there is a Skywalker in the Rebellion? Why is he so fixated on him? There is purpose in his actions he is looking for him, he may have sensed his power, he may have sensed it was his son. But that is the part that is inference. What is questionable is how did he know it was Skywalker? We can argue the news went across the galaxy. But what kind of secretive Rebellion lets out news like that? It would be so easy to have a seen where Vader meets the protagonists. But he only interacts with Leia and Obi in ANH and chases them to Cloud City and doesnt interact with them until then. THe EU explains this in Splinter of the Mind's Eye ect. But its no good trying to save face when you commit a little but also big plothole like that. Something the EU needed to address, but shouldn't have because the film should have simply covered the issue.

In the PT, there are many of the sort. Syfo Dyas being one of the biggest. Okay Dooku was Tyrannus and he did all that, but he also used Syfo Dyas' name. Now I think Galactic ID is needed for anything especially considering you are ordering a freaking army. And its for the Republic....I as a cloner would ask for ID. This a big stinker. Wouldn't it be easier to just either eliminate Dyas' name. Or if Dyas did do it, wouldn't it be better to show the Dooku manipulated him and killed him. It can referenced as easily as Obi-Wan mention the Syfo Dyas thing and Dooku could say:

"Ohhh Obi-Wan you dissapoint me. One could expect from the Jedi nowaydays, the Dark Side clouds your vision. Syfo-Dyas was a pawn of Darth Sidious scheme. He used him and later killed him. Sad really, Dyas was a good friend."

Now that's on the top of my mind, but I think in about two or three lines like this the whole plothole could have been solved. But now the EU has to make a comic book or a novel to explain what happened. Etc. Etc. Etc.