Senate The US Politics discussion

One thing that I think most conservatives (certainly those folks like J-Rod) don't think anything about is the amount of innovation and entrepreneurship that simply doesn't happen (or is greatly reduced) because so many people can't take chances due to healthcare reasons. Now, given the modern conservative appreciation for monopolies, corporations, and the preservation of the status quo in the United States, this may well be seen as a positive byproduct.

Countless people are chained to jobs and places they don't like because they can't afford to give up their insurance.

 

This is a good point. The fact that it's couched in generalisations is a shame, so I tried to quote it separately. Didn't fully succeed, because of the oblique use of "you" and "your". But the essence is true: it's hypocritical to criticize Trump's insults while insulting him.

I know it's very tempting. I do it myself all the time. But I wouldn't do it if I ran for office, or any public position. And I guess that goes for a lot of people. Not for Trump, so he can still be criticized for it. However, it's a good point that those critics should practice what they preach.

 

He is an orange baboon. I'm not going to lie about it. It isn't sexist or racist. Trump calling Warren "Pocahontas" is both.

Just like Trump is.

 

Yeah, it's fine to be against making fun of Trump's appearance, but it's not the same as what female public figures endure-- not just HRC and Warren but those Democrats hate such as Palin and Kellyanne Conway.

 

I will happy take the mickey out of someone who has chosen to change their appearance as a result of a want


I won't take the mickey out of someone as a result of an appearance they were born with, a personal trait they were born with or a change in appearance they have chosen to undertake as a result of a need (this list is not exhaustive)


Male or female who are orange as a result of far too much tanning agent can both be mocked equally.


Mockery of someone for being gay, female, transgendered, disabled is just wrong.

 

Please stop using Hillary to excuse Trump.

 

I could mock Trump for his tan, but I don't think I ever have because it's superficial, I actually don't give a ****. I'd much rather mock his incompetence and talk about how harmful his behavior and policies are. Do you think I care about his ******* tan or his ******* hair while he's destroying the country?

J-Rod, despite the many discussions he's been involved with here about the subjects, still has no clue what sexism or racism are, but for once in his life he has a small, ignorantly delivered point here.

Don't mock Trump for his appearance, because that's petty and superficial, and it's what petty and superficial people do. It doesn't become not crappy because Trump is a crappy person himself.

And Baldwin? Alec ******* Baldwin? Look, I think he's hilarious, but the guy has a history of awful, wholly homophobic rants. He shouldn't be receiving support for public office from liberals.

 

Edit: why did that post twice

And yes I do agree mocking Trump for his appearance is petty. It's just stooping to his level and I believe the majority of Americans are better than that.

 

Because the boards are having a mid - life crisis.

 

And another major problem that won't matter in the least.

Repeat after me: this is not normal. And it's certainly not okay.

Swamp multiplier, anyone?

 

So it's really his defense fund and not his re-election fund that he's been holding fundraisers for?

 

Let's be honest, his supporters will probably applaud this and donate more.

The law means nothing to them.

 

anakinfansince1983 Drinking games are supposed to be fun ways to get wasted, not a miserable crash course to the ER for a stomach pumping.

 

Stomach pumping? With that drinking game you'd have embalmed yourself and be waiting for the coffin within five minutes.

 

A serious question-- what's the incentive for a strong Trump supporter to change their views? I'm not sure people give enough thought to the cognitive dissonance that would be created, or the feeling of wasted time, money, and energy.

If it wasn't HRC, it would be (and frequently is) someone else. There's a variety of strong incentives to justify what's happened to date and to blame others.

 

Your charity giving is to churches and alma maters, J-Rod. It's hardly commendable.

 

ok but that's kind of not the point. American conservatives like to pat themselves on the back with how much they "donate to charity", and like with capitalism, liberalism, the English language, entrees as main courses and basic common sense it just doesn't mean the same thing in the US. Giving millions back to Harvard for example is not the kind of thing that makes you a good person, nor does giving your church everything you can.

 

I don't think it's possible.

Look at J-Rod's posts--he not only attacks 'the left', but he criticizes liberal positions as against those of "real" Americans. In other words, he sees those not like him as "fake", ie illegitimate. While that's a simplistic answer to a complex problem, it really is the heart of the whole mess. Those who attended college or higher, who live in the cities, who don't work in union-associated vocations are 'elitist', 'snobby', and 'out of touch' with "real" America. They act "entitled" to impose their socially-liberal views on the rest of the nation and consider arguments against their positions as racist, sexist, etc. There can be no reasoning with that viewpoint as the two sides don't even speak the same language. It's like asking someone what blue smells like--a color doesn't have a smell (unless you're suffering from synesthesia, and for arguments' sake we'll assume you're not).

The left also does this, but to a much lesser extent. What conservatives see as 'preservation' or 'restoration', liberals see as imposing an outdated series of viewpoints on a majority who doesn't want them. Take abortion and gay marriage as examples; if two men get married in Connecticut, it has no effect whatsoever on churchgoers in Kansas, but said churchgoers don't see it that way. Same with a 19-year college student who is six weeks pregnant taking mifepristone and misoprostol to induce an abortion. It's no-one else's business, unless you believe that the existence of behavior that offends your worldview and sense of mental and emotional stability makes everything your business. That's where the average American Trump supporter is--it's not about them, it's about the 'Other', and what they are doing.

If the Other has same-sex marriage, then conservatives are diminished. If the 'Other's' females can have sex without fear of procreation, then their control, and sense of self, is threatened. If a mentally-ill terrorist can't get a gun, we're one step away from confiscation, because the 2nd-Amendment is more absolute than the laws of physics (which aren't really real since G-d can change them anyway).

I've come to the sad conclusion that there truly is no reasoning with hardcore Trump supporters. They see what they want to see, believe what they want to believe. Ironically, that makes them more effective disciples of quantum mechanics than the most hardcore physicists on the planet (vis-a-vis 'you create your own reality'), but it also makes the forcefield around their echo chamber impossible to break. At this point, I don't think it's realistic to win over Trump voters, and I no longer believe we should try. If you think that Muslim bans are okay, that sexual orientation is a choice, that arming the entire population of the United States will reduce crime, that putting sex and gays back in the box will lead the nation to safety, security, and prosperity, that science and facts are optional at best, equal to opinions at worst, that climate change will only be real when Republicans say it is, then we have absolutely nothing in common and should go our separate ways. At the very least, I will make sure I try and mobilize everyone who thinks like me to go out and vote in every election they can to nullify and override the 'red' votes.

And I say this believing that J-Rod is one of the more reasonable conservatives out there. Most Trump voters are too steeped in what KW correctly calls 'grievance politics' to objectively look at what the elected officials they supported last fall are trying to do to them. By the time they figure it out, it will be too late--and they'll still blame Democrats for their problems.

 

I think I should stick to the physics analogies

 

well it really goes back to how Republicans do better in off year elections and how well they do in talk radio , and Fox. That side is engaged. I think part of it is an age thing.
When i was growing up, i never saw either side as 'the enemy'. It's sad this is what it's become. There's a complete irrational on the Right . Bush and Clinton spoke together a couple days ago and Bush posted it on his facebook page. There were all kinds of negative comments about how could Bush possibly pal around with Clinton, how Clinton is a pervert , etc. these same people are Trumpers. mr 'grab em by the...'
I mean they're so irrational they'll hit Bush and other Republicans for saying they didn't vote for Trump, while at the same time all the slurs he hurled at them are supposed to be forgiven and forgotten.

 

I agree and I also think this is why the country needs to split up. Let NY and CA be more like Western Democracies and let TX and NC be like Russia or one of the -Stans.