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Senate The US Politics discussion

Discussion in 'Community' started by Ghost, Dec 6, 2012.

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  1. Darth Guy

    Darth Guy Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Aug 16, 2002
    lol the president is legally able to pardon himself? That's insane.
     
  2. Yoda's_Roomate

    Yoda's_Roomate Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    Feb 8, 2000
    Its amazing, the times we live in. Even more amazing how some people still support him, just because they don't want to see reason because they would have to admit to a mistake.
     
  3. KnightWriter

    KnightWriter Administrator Emeritus star 9 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Nov 6, 2001
    It's one of those things that has been debated and never tested because no one has been willing to do it, or perhaps more accurately, no one has ever been in a position to think they need to. I think it came up in 1974, but that would have been academic given the certain impeachment and probable conviction.
     
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  4. Yoda's_Roomate

    Yoda's_Roomate Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    Feb 8, 2000
  5. KnightWriter

    KnightWriter Administrator Emeritus star 9 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Nov 6, 2001
    If Trump pardons himself and it's upheld as being legal, the only remedy at that point would be impeachment, which cannot be pardoned. I think where it could get particularly uncertain is the fate of the Mueller team and the information it has dug up. Mueller is required to make a public report. It can't be buried, though I'm not sure if that applies if he's fired. I don't see impeachment as a realistic possibility given the current makeup of the House, but the release of a partial or complete report could alter that dynamic some. Or Congress could ignore it completely.

    Trump also can only issue pardons on a federal level. He has no power with regard to any state lawsuits, and those are coming from at least two states, I believe (New York being one of them).
     
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  6. Juliet316

    Juliet316 Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Apr 27, 2005
  7. Game3525

    Game3525 Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 25, 2008
    Money laundering is what going to bring all these guys down in the end.
     
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  8. Darth Nerdling

    Darth Nerdling Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 20, 2013
    This piece from The New Republic goes along well with the news that Mueller is investigating Trump's financial wrongdoings. It's an in-depth look at Trump's financial relationships with Russian Oligarchs and the Russian mafia.

    It seems that Trump was one of only two guys in Manhattan real estate willing to sell to anonymous buyers at the time, which made those real estate purchases perfect ways to launder money. There have been multiple arrests of Russians living in Trump properties, and some of them have direct ties to Putin. In 1 case, NY cops arrested 29 people in Trump tower in a room 1 floor below an apartment that Trump owned and used. Another Russian launderer lived 1 floor below an apartment owned by Kelly Ann Conway.

    One passage from the article: The “tower full of oligarchs,” as Bloomberg called it, became a model for Trump’s projects going forward. All he needed to do, it seemed, was slap the Trump name on a big building, and high-dollar customers from Russia and the former Soviet republics were guaranteed to come rushing in. Dolly Lenz, a New York real estate broker, toldUSA Today that she sold some 65 units in Trump World Tower to Russians. “I had contacts in Moscow looking to invest in the United States,” Lenz said. “They all wanted to meet Donald.”

    https://newrepublic.com/article/143...ses-dirty-money-international-crime-syndicate

    It's an interesting read.
     
  9. Lord Vivec

    Lord Vivec Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Apr 17, 2006
    This is an unconvincing argument. Every system is going to have people who don't want to participate in the system. Sovereign Citizens exist right now who do not wish to participate in the modern liberal democratic nation-state system.
     
  10. Ender Sai

    Ender Sai Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Feb 18, 2001
    Yes but I mean those people are born from the same system that made people think libertarianism is viable Vivec.
     
  11. KnightWriter

    KnightWriter Administrator Emeritus star 9 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Nov 6, 2001
    Here's an interesting post from ThinkProgress outlining a risk Trump would be taking if he issued pardons. In short, anyone pardoned would lose their 5th Amendment right against self-incrimination. They wouldn't be facing any legal consequences, so there wouldn't be any acceptable rationale to avoid answering any and all questions put to them. They would also be liable for perjury if they were found to have been untruthful.

    https://thinkprogress.org/trump-cou...y-if-he-pardons-his-inner-circle-687e6d0348c9
     
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  12. DANNASUK

    DANNASUK Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Nov 1, 2012
    An "unconvincing argument" is a polite way of putting it.


    Those poor people. How could you reject liberalism, when the these two are the leaders of free world?

    [​IMG]
     
  13. Hef

    Hef Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Jan 30, 2005
    I have the climate prediction model right here that predicts the average earth temperature twenty-five years from today perfectly within half a degree.
     
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  14. starfish

    starfish Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    Oct 9, 2003
    Half a degree celsius is quite a lot though, especially when we're considering the average temperature of the entire planet.
     
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  15. J-Rod

    J-Rod Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    Jul 28, 2004
    It is the argument. In a Capitalistic society, if you don't want to participate then you live in the street and the thinly veiled communists use you as an excuse for communism. In commun...I mean socialism, if you don't participate you must be jailed in a labor camp or...removed.

    It's the difference between an insurance company saying they won't pay for your infant's treatment vs the government saying you can't seek treatment for Charlie Gard.. Even when there is a line of people willing to pay. One of which is the evil President of the United States and The Pope. There is a subtle yet important difference.

    Oh, and there's this:
    http://news.morningstar.com/all/dow...weekly-pay-gain-faster-than-other-groups.aspx

    I wonder if it has something to do with this:
    http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2017/apr/4/illegal-immigration-down-67-percent-under-trump/

    Big PaPa J is always right.

    Always.
     
  16. TCF-1138

    TCF-1138 Anthology/Fan Films/NSA Mod & Ewok Enthusiast star 6 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Sep 20, 2002
    Socialism is not the same thing as communism, no matter how many times you repeat that nonsense, J-Rod.
     
  17. Hef

    Hef Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Jan 30, 2005
    Not a problem. Accuracy guaranteed.
     
  18. Jedi Merkurian

    Jedi Merkurian Future Films Rumor Naysayer star 7 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    May 25, 2000
    Moreover, I have yet to see an argument that convinces me that socialism -in and of itself- is a bad thing. I have however seen tons of arguments proceed from the premise that socialism is inherently evil.
     
  19. Ramza

    Ramza Administrator Emeritus star 9 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jul 13, 2008
    Well you see if workers directly control the means of production and we make decisions democratically everyone ends up in a gulag as a matter of course. Engels laid this out quite clearly in his famous Socialism: Utopian and Scientific and Sweet, Sweet Gulags.

    I also like the not-so-subtle implication that homelessness is a voluntary condition, anyone concerned about homelessness is a secret communist (that's some prime John Bircher stuff right there), and the willful or accidental ignorance of the fact that the homeless population is already subject to disproportionately high police harassment and jailing.
     
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  20. DANNASUK

    DANNASUK Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Nov 1, 2012
    I thought J-Rod told us that only the mentally ill were homeless....
     
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  21. Darth Guy

    Darth Guy Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Aug 16, 2002
    So is obesity! And absolutely nothing is ironic.
     
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  22. Ramza

    Ramza Administrator Emeritus star 9 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jul 13, 2008
    It's all just contracts, man, Rothbard, something something.
     
  23. J-Rod

    J-Rod Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    Jul 28, 2004
    Show me where I said that.


    The comprehension skills here are a little lacking. When a man notes that failure to participate in Capitalism in a Capitalistic society leads to homelessness he isn't saying that all homeless is a decision.
     
  24. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012
    Here:


     
  25. DANNASUK

    DANNASUK Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Nov 1, 2012
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