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Senate The US Politics discussion

Discussion in 'Community' started by Ghost, Dec 6, 2012.

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  1. Lord Vivec

    Lord Vivec Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Apr 17, 2006
    Someone who blames women for not getting laid.

    Also you have an extra covfefe at the end.
     
  2. Luke02

    Luke02 Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Sep 19, 2002
  3. Lord Vivec

    Lord Vivec Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Apr 17, 2006
    CONGRESSIONAL GOP STATUS: CUCKED
     
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  4. Jester J Binks

    Jester J Binks Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 19, 2016
    So where is this Medicare for All proposal from Bernie Sanders. Is he just doing his usual gibberish without any serious backup?

    At least Conyers put forward a basic framework bill (although actual numbers were elusive or non-existent). But at least rally behind the guy with actual framework as opposed to the typical blowhard Sanders.
    https://www.govtrack.us/congress/bills/115/hr676/text

    With such a staged announcement today, you'd think I'd go to his Senate.gov site and it would be plastered all over the index page.
     
  5. Jedi Merkurian

    Jedi Merkurian Future Films Rumor Naysayer star 7 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    May 25, 2000
    Here's one for ya: ask the students to list 10 positive achievements, and then ask them if they could find anything wrong with the list. Then talk about positive things achieved by Americans who aren't white. Even better, do this in any month that's not February ;)

    Better-suited for the Race Relations thread, I know, but...
     
  6. Yodaminch

    Yodaminch Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Mar 6, 2002
    On the subject of Hillary Clinton's book, press tour and interviews, I get where people find this to be whining or sore loser stuff. On the other hand, if anyone has the right to let loose and tell people off, she's the one.

    Because, while she did make mistakes (deplorables, emails, and not going to WI or MI), at the end of the day, many people said things about HER and not her policies. And many of those things said about HER were inaccurate at best and downright lies/slander at worst (pizza parlor). Also, whether anyone wants to admit it or not, sexism absolutely played a part. I still have friends claiming that Hillary would be a worse president than Trump. I still have friends who, despite being the very people in danger of losing Healthcare or having a friend deported, still think they were in the right for not voting for Hillary. Those reasons aren't based in fact, but in the true belief that women belong in the kitchen and not politics. And to those who didn't vote at all, I'm also with Hillary in that they shouldn't be forgiven. This election wasn't exactly a quiet one. Even people in comas probably heard it through the television. It was 24/7 worldwide drama for nearly 3 years. So to not vote after all that and then complain about the result or think "Oops guess I should have voted" also with Hillary on that feeling. Especially considering how many states had early voting.

    I don't however agree with her knock against Biden. Bernie on the other hand? That criticism is valid. He could have hit her on the substance of her policies. He could have also ended his campaign earlier (when it was clear beyond a shadow of a doubt he could not win) and given her broader support. At the end of the day, his decisions did affect how his supporters behaved. Lest we forget the attempts to make a scene at the convention for instance. Bernie did have opportunities to speak to his supporters-he did so half-heartedly. And he continues to do so as evidenced by these same supporters attacking figures like Kamala Harris. And yes, there are some supporters there that are sexist and Bernie should have smacked them down harshly when he had the chance. That's no different than Clinton not smacking down some of her worst supporters or Trump and the KKK. They are all guilty of it. That said, when Hillary lost to Obama, she did rally her people and she did everything she could to help him win. You can't say the same about Bernie despite his repeated comments about the dangers of Trump. If he truly practiced what he was preaching, he would have more forcefully laid things out to his supporters on why Hillary had to have their vote over Jill or Gary. Heck, even Gary's VP choice was scared enough of Trump to tell people to vote Hillary. In the end, it all comes down to the candidate and her mistakes. No one denies there were many mistakes. But, there were people who could have helped and done better who actively chose not to. And if I were Hillary, I'd be ticked off at them as well. Say what you want about her, but you really can't deny she was a team player for the party for years.

    All of that said however, I look at Hillary's decision to write this book not just as catharsis for her but as a giant warning to the Democrats and the American people so we don't repeat this mistake a third time. She could have aired her grievances better, but after decades of this treatment, I do think she's also earned the right to just tell people how she actually feels for once and not have to worry or care about how they interpret that. If she's not running again, really what does she have to lose? And why should she not speak her mind? Because it hurts Bernie Sanders, Joe Biden, or the Democratic Party? The same individuals whose actions hurt her campaign? Somehow, I doubt those are the people she cares about offending at this stage in her life.

    And after this, while she may still be involved in speaking, writing and fundraising, she's not running for anything again. And based on her comments about the women's march, she also knows about stepping aside to let others lead. If this is her final bow, then let her have it. If nothing else, she's earned that much.
     
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  7. Jabba-wocky

    Jabba-wocky Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    May 4, 2003
    I don't think her "they couldn't attack my policies" line is quite fair. If they couldn't be attacked, it's also true that she was incredibly malleable with them. For instance, recall the minimum wage issue. After attacking Bernie's $15/hour position, as impractical, she got on the debate stage and said that "of course" she supports a $15/hr minimum wage. So, yes, when you do something like that I can see how opponents find it difficult to attack your policies.

    Similarly, I never thought her broader response to the corruption charge was a good one. It's not about "Asking for one time she changed her vote because of a political donation." By that standard, Citizens United is probably okay, too. The debate was always about a more subtle means of influencing the thinking of elected officials and the policy making process, not outright vote buying. She was--and is--being disingenuous about people's actual concerns.
     
  8. Ghost

    Ghost Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Oct 13, 2003
    So Trump is agreeing to:

    * support the DREAM Act without a border wall
    http://www.cnn.com/2017/09/13/politics/chuck-schumer-nancy-pelosi-donald-trump/index.html

    * higher taxes for the rich
    http://www.rollcall.com/news/politics/trump-richest-americans-tax-hike/

    * bipartisan improvement of ObamaCare
    http://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/350579-trump-open-to-obamacare-fix-lawmakers-say-after-meeting



    Also, polls show that more people support Trump (including his immigration/trade policies) than:
    universal healthcare
    or a minimum wage hike
    or tuition-free college:

    http://www.politico.com/story/2017/09/13/teflon-trump-democrats-messaging-242607

     
  9. Lord Vivec

    Lord Vivec Chosen One star 9

    Registered:
    Apr 17, 2006
    I'm sorry but this is a load of horse****.

    1) This isn't a case of it looking or feeling like whining. It's whining. She's straight up blaming everybody else for her failures. She's blamed Bernie, Bernie Supporters, women and minorities who didn't submit to the white centrist Clintonite line, BLM, everybody. It's a ****ing disgrace. She's not entitled to anyone's vote, but she's still acting like she was entitled to it but didn't get it. Maybe don't be a centrist status quo warrior in a change election, hmmm?

    2) Yes, people made comments about her and not her policies. But that's true for everyone. How many "Drumpf" and "orange skin" were attacks on policy? Or comments about Bernie's statically charged hair and accent? Come on, she knew what league she was playing in. She's lucky Bernie actually spent a good amount of time on their policy differences. He could have gone much worse and been fine.

    3) This bears repeating, because it seems to be the crux of your absolutely ill-thought out post: She. Is. Not. Entitled. To. Anyone's. Vote. Nobody needs to be 'forgiven' for not voting for her. Or for not voting at all. Not voting isn't a sin. It's not our job to go out and vote for her, it's her job to earn the votes.

    4) This 'Bernie didn't do more' is the stupidest line ever. It's part of you Hillary's stans' need to focus blame on everyone but her. Bernie had no obligation to concede the race, but he did. He then fully backed her, and any attempt to say otherwise is historical revisionism akin to the Nice Guy monstrosity that What Happened is. It's no one's responsibility to have helped her. Any help she received you lot should have been grateful for, but instead it's always a case of "that's it?"

    5) If Clinton wants catharsis, there are plenty of ways to get that without writing a book destroying what little goodwill she had after losing to the worst candidate in history. Even many of her defenders are sitting back on this one, leaving only her die hard neoliberal stans to come to the rescue. While Bernie Sanders spent this week getting support and co-sponsors for his Medicare for all bill (something that will actually help people), Clinton spent this week on her Grievance Tour talking about how the world is unfair and how she was robbed of 'her turn.' Pathetic. A last, truly, pathetic act from someone trying so desperately to be relevant again.
     
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  10. CT-867-5309

    CT-867-5309 Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Jan 5, 2011
    I agree with your post, and there are plenty of ways, but none feel better than burning bridges.
    [​IMG]


    I'd do it, too. I'd do more, the book would just be full of me cursing out everyone and pictures of me giving the the middle finger.
     
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  11. slidewhistle

    slidewhistle Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Jul 24, 2015
  12. Coruscant

    Coruscant Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Feb 15, 2004
    Wait, how is Vivec a racist piece of ****?
     
  13. Jabba-wocky

    Jabba-wocky Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    May 4, 2003
    It's getting quite bitter in here guys. Amongst us. Let's not replicate the dynamics of the election itself. We all voted for His Excellency. We all support Single Mom. And Hillary Clinton matters to none of us anymore. Let it all go.

    If these struggles are really as timeless as we're supposing, new faces will emerge to carry their banners in new forms. We can take the debate up then. And if they are any more transient. . .well, why waste time on it? Let us be at peace.

    EDIT: Do we really have to be so extreme as using profanity? Is this 4Chan or something?
     
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  14. yankee8255

    yankee8255 Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    May 31, 2005
    Except that Hilary does matter to a lot of people. News media give her coverage because people tune in/read it. She has a book deal because people will buy the book.

    It's a bit like all the people who laid flowers in front of Buckingham Palace and cried and cursed the paparazzi when Diana died -- the paparazzi wouldn't have chased her constantly if those same people crying and leaving flowers didn't also constantly buy the Sun, Daily Mail, etc.
     
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  15. SuperWatto

    SuperWatto Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Sep 19, 2000
    People should read the book before commenting. Otherwise they should just ignore it.
    Also, Vivec is not a racist.
     
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  16. realjim949

    realjim949 Jedi Padawan star 1

    Registered:
    Aug 22, 2017
    Are we still having these conservations? Whose fault was it? Hillary Clinton or a ****ing ghost? WHO RAN AGAINST TRUMP?! I mean what a lunatic, fringe idea the establishment has embraced!!! Oh, no, it wasn’t Hillary! It wasn’t Hillary! It was someone else! It was Casper the Friendly Ghost! It was Scooby-Doo! I mean, she would’ve gotten away with it if it weren’t for you meddling kids! You millennials! Why didn’t you— You had to do your duty to the establishment and bow your head and vote for her. It’s your fault. She didn’t energize you? She didn’t give you a reason to vote? Who cares? Your fault!

    Nope
     
  17. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Skywalker Saga/LFL/YJCC Manager star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Mar 4, 2011
    The personal attacks need to stop.

    On the subject of Clinton's book...yes, she can say whatever she wants now because she isn't campaigning again. Yes, some of the attacks against her were sexism, but not as many as she seems to think, and feminism is not done any favors by the idea that an attack on the policies of a female politician, attacks that would be equal if she were a man (and her warmongering, being out of touch, assuming that the "blue wall" was hers, and faux progressivism were exactly that--she would have received the same criticism if she were a man), constitutes "sexism." Yes, there was some stupid crap said about her, PizzaGate being part of that.

    But at the end of the day she is not looking at what she could have done differently. I would not even include the "deplorables" comment in that, she was pretty clear to say "some Trump supporters" and the "racists, sexists and homophobes"; there was no reason for every Trump supporter to include him or herself in that comment, any more than there is reason for me to be offended when someone says "many Southerners are uneducated hicks."

    She should have looked at why Sanders beat her in the primary in many states, and why she just assumed that she had those states in the bag instead of campaigning there. Hell, she should have looked at why she didn't campaign in swing states, I saw far more Trump ads last year.

    As others have said, she was not entitled to anyone's vote, including the vote of Democrats who voted for Obama twice, or the vote of people who voted for Sanders in the primary. But she seemed to think that she did not have to earn it, that it was "her turn" because she had worked for the Democratic Party for 25 years.
     
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  18. VadersLaMent

    VadersLaMent Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Apr 3, 2002
  19. appleseed

    appleseed Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    Dec 5, 2002
    So this indicates there is little chance gerrymandering will be stopped, and voter suppression will go on.

    There really is no future and no hope. This festering hellhole of a country can not be fixed.
     
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  20. Juliet316

    Juliet316 Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Apr 27, 2005
    Yep. Time to buy guns and put them to our heads before Trump sentences us all to a grisly nuclear death.
     
  21. V-2

    V-2 Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Dec 10, 2012
    It's quite obvious that lots of you people clamouring to trash HRC and her book have not (and probably could not) read her book.
     
  22. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Skywalker Saga/LFL/YJCC Manager star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Mar 4, 2011
    I am certainly capable of reading the book, although I most likely won't, and I am basing many of my comments on an interview that she gave as well as the passages of it that I did read. Both the interview and the snippets confirm something I already suspected, especially after watching an interview with Donna Brazile in which she said along the lines of "Sanders is a great guy but Clinton has been a member of the Democratic Party for 25 years"--as if I'm supposed to care about that. Also, Wassermann-Schulz pretty much owned that the party intended to nominate Clinton regardless even before the first primary.

    Would I vote for her again when the only alternative was Trump? Yes. But that does not mean that it was Sanders' fault that she lost.
     
  23. Vaderize03

    Vaderize03 Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Oct 25, 1999
    The Supreme Court blocked an attempt to end gerrymandering in Texas


    No, they lifted an injunction from a federal circuit appeals court against Texas's latest voting maps. They did not rule on the merits of the case, arguments for which are scheduled for October 10th.

    That being said, the current split, 5-4 to overturn the circuit court, means either:

    a) they will allow the law to take full effect, likely with the same split.

    or

    b) Anthony Kennedy wants to make case law and so voted to allow the maps to stand.

    The second point is key. Under the Roberts Court, many difficult Constitutional questions have been either dismissed outright due to lack of standing or punted back to the lower courts. By keeping the maps, it is virtually guaranteed that someone will be disenfranchised in an election somewhere in Texas before next June, which will effectively negate the "standing" argument (yes, the conservative 4 will vote to uphold the law regardless, but Kennedy remains a swing vote).

    Given that he may very well have stayed on the Court this year to just to rule on the Wisconsin gerrymandering case (and wrote an opinion critical of Antonin Scalia's assertion that the Courts can't hear gerrymandering cases from a previous ruling), this may very well provide him with another platform. It really is Kennedy's court now. Shame he's so old; once he leaves, progressives are going to have a much harder time getting legislation to stick.
     
  24. DANNASUK

    DANNASUK Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Nov 1, 2012
    Hilary Clinton is/was the embodiment of the establishment.

    That's why she lost.
     
  25. Rylo Ken

    Rylo Ken Force Ghost star 7

    Registered:
    Dec 19, 2015
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