The USA gets its way...again... (ICC)

Discussion in 'Archive: The Senate Floor' started by SidiousDragon, Jul 13, 2002.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Darth Geist Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 23, 1999
    star 5
    From an American's POV, the UN is asking us to violate our constitution and throw our own legal system out the window so that our troops can face juries not of their peers, as per constitutional law, but of other nations, some of which have long-standing grudges against us.

    In response to this, the biggest threat we make is to stop volunteering our time, resources, and in some cases lives on the UN's behalf.

    And Omega, you threaten war over this?

    Oh, and Sidious, look up "blackmail" in the dictionary. :p
  2. Darth_Omega Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 19, 2002
    star 6
    And Omega, you threaten war over this?

    I'm not threatening... But war seems tempting...

    So does boycotting...

    oh well I'll be pleased when USA, like any other great power in history, lose his power
  3. StarFire Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 31, 2001
    star 4
    Not a fan of success stories?
  4. Darth_Omega Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 19, 2002
    star 6
    Not a fan of success stories?

    name one

    don't tell USA because USA is only a great power for the last 100 years.

    I can name other countries that lasted lot longer...
  5. StarFire Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 31, 2001
    star 4
    If a country manages to survive for 250 years through global turmoil, stands against and survives the fall of several other superpowers and becomes a major economic power through trade and not conquest--I'd call that a success story. And yes, I'm talking about the US :p
  6. Darth Geist Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 23, 1999
    star 5
    "oh well I'll be pleased when USA, like any other great power in history, lose his power"

    Woo! Make way for China! :p
  7. Darth_Omega Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 19, 2002
    star 6
    for 250 years

    that's not long is it?

    Egypt last longer, so did the romans, the Moorish, Portugal, Spain, Austria, Brittish and Holland too if I'm not mistaken.


    Persian as well of course, China (although China is going to be one off the new great powers)

    Are those enough, wait if forgot Ottoman Empire

    Hmmm, that's about it...

    those lasted much longer than 250 years...
  8. Obi-Zahn Kenobi Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 23, 1999
    star 7
    nationalism sucks no nation is better or worse than any other

    Except America...

    ;)

    I heard from others about the things in Vietnam...

    You might go crazy and start killing people at random too if your worst enemy was an 8 year old kid holding a soda can in one hand and a hand grenade in the other.
  9. StarFire Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 31, 2001
    star 4
    So we haven't lasted as long as the Persian or Roman empires. Would you be happier if we had? Would you be happier if we had ascribed to their habit of conquering everybody?

    The United States is unique. We had the opportunity to start with a blank slate, and the great good fortune to have some of the more educated men of the time fill in that slate.
    We haven't gone out to conquer anybody. We don't try to beat people into submission without cause. We have emerged as the world's lone superpower mainly because of our economy. We've become what we are on our own merit, not just because others failed.
    I'd call that a success story.
  10. Darth_Omega Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 19, 2002
    star 6
    nationalism sucks no nation is better or worse than any other

    Except America...


    don't start [face_plain]

    We haven't gone out to conquer anybody.

    LOL well not yet anyway.

    I'd call that a success story.

    A succes story is a story with an happy ending. Untill now the story hasn't ended





    yet...
  11. StarFire Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 31, 2001
    star 4
    So we can't be a success until AFTER we've been destroyed?!

    MAN, that sucks.
  12. Darth_Omega Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 19, 2002
    star 6
    So we can't be a success until AFTER we've been destroyed?!

    MAN, that sucks.


    life sucks...

    every great power was once called a succes untill they simply lost their power...
  13. StarFire Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 31, 2001
    star 4
    Wait, wait--now some countries were successes BEFORE they lost power?

    Something's not tracking with your reasoning.
  14. Darth_Omega Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 19, 2002
    star 6
    Wait, wait--now some countries were successes BEFORE they lost power?

    you should read my post better I said this:

    every great power was once called a succes untill they simply lost their power...

    but were they a succes?

    no, just because they are the great power at the moment everyone presumes that it's a succes. No great power will ever be successfull.

    Unless they conquer the entire world ...

    or somehow they organised world peace.

    But at the moment the second will never happen and so won't be the first one (according to you).
  15. StarFire Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 31, 2001
    star 4
    A country can be successful and than lose its success. By your definition no country can ever be successful.
  16. Darth_Omega Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 19, 2002
    star 6
    By your definition no country can ever be successful.

    true....
  17. Runaway_Shadow Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 25, 2002
    star 4
    hehehe me too the Hague to be exact...

    I live not that far of!


    StarFire Well by not joining in the international court America is suggesting they are better than others.
    And maybe you'll pull those soldiers back and prosecute them, but will others who'll follow America's example.
  18. SidiousDragon Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 13, 2001
    star 4
    One word why America should be the last country to be exempt:

    Vietnam.

    And thats just the worst example. America seems to kill hundreds to thousands of civilians every time they get involved anywhere, and get away with it.

    Furthermore, whenever a country violates UN law, America starts to ask them to back down or face retaliation. But when America has to follow the same rules, the rules arer ignored because no one can do anything about it.


    The worst thing about all this is that a lot of Americans share Europe's view. However, the majority don't becasue since September 11th you've been brainwashed. People who criticise the government seem to be branded as anti-American

    Rather sickeningly for the families of the victims, September 11th is the best thing which could ever have happened for Bush. he went from a President who had less than half the country supporting him to one of the most popular presidents ever, just because America suffered a terrorist attack.

    The reason he keeps you in a constant state of alert, with the CIA claiming the terrorists are planning an attack every month, is because in doing so he can justify anything he does as being "necessary for national security" without anyone opposing him.

    (Ironcially this is the same thing Palpatine does in AOTC :p)

  19. Darth_Omega Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 19, 2002
    star 6
    hehehe me too the Hague to be exact...

    I live not that far of!


    really :p

    where :D
  20. Coolguy4522 Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Dec 21, 2000
    star 4
    For a long time I didn't understand why I would see TV spots that said how evil the UN is. Now I understand.

    This court should have NO jurisdiction over America. I simply don't understand how it is legally possible for a foriegn entity to simply usurp power over our military, and in comming years citizens, without any TREATY or Act of Congress. Furthermore, we are the bulk of UN forces. So if we are out there doing what the UN wants, and some of our soldiers screw up, we have to give the entity that requested them there in the first place have jurisdicion over them?

    Here is my question: Why does the US military need to be ruled by this court?
    If there are war crimes, we take care of them ourselfs.

    The biggest problem is with this court is that in the future the UN could usurp more power by having jusidiciton over US Citizens, and then they will have control over our laws, and so forth.

    I don't see this position as nationalistic.

    Oh, and as for trying Harry Truman for War Crimes, that is the most stupid idea ever. Harry Truman did what any other American would have done. If you are going to try him, you should try every other dead American that was living at the time.



  21. SidiousDragon Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 13, 2001
    star 4
    America has to be tried by this "entity" as you call it becasue America insists on other countries doing so. If America asks others to participate, and if the UN unanimously votes yes to the proposed court, why should America be exempt?

    (BTW, personally I believe anybody involved with the Manhatten project and the order to drop the bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki should be ranked alongside Hitler, Himmler and Goering. Flame as you will, but its true).
  22. BoboliFett Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 24, 2002
    star 3
    "(BTW, personally I believe anybody involved with the Manhatten project and the order to drop the bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki should be ranked alongside Hitler, Himmler and Goering. Flame as you will, but its true).

    Do not even try to discuss something with someone that makes statements like this.

    BTW: What is the definition of the word trolling?
  23. Genghis12 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 18, 1999
    star 6
    SidiousDragon...
    "If you don't believe the ICC can judge American troops properly, why did the US insist on the handing over of Milosevitch, claiming that the ICC could judge him fairly?"

    ?[face_plain] This makes no sense? Dude, I hope you know that Milosevic is NOT an American soldier.
  24. SidiousDragon Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 13, 2001
    star 4
    Ok, tell me why the incineration of two entire cities in a Nuclear explosion should not be considered to be one of the worst war crimes in history?

    I know what you're going to say:

    "Because it was necessary to end a war which could have killed more Americans"

    Because Americans are the only people who count in this world, aren't they?

    (GENGHIS read the posts again, I think you misunderstood. the point was, America said thecourt was fair wehn they tried to convince Yugoslavia to hand over Milosevic. now they're saying it isn't fair when it comes to handing over Americans)
  25. Coolguy4522 Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Dec 21, 2000
    star 4
    I was going to respond to your first comment, but it is entirelly useless.


    (BTW, personally I believe anybody involved with the Manhatten project and the order to drop the bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki should be ranked alongside Hitler, Himmler and Goering. Flame as you will, but its true).

    This is the most obsurd, ridiculous, and uninformed opinion I have ever heard. I am not going to flame you, but I do not think I could disagree with any statement more. You might as well have said the sun revolves around the earth or that the earth is flat. I cannot say anything to change your mind, so I won't even try. But I will suggest you actually read through the threads that are already on this. Everything has been said there. The only way you could make this statement is if the US had nuked the entirety of Japan to oblivion and tried to kill every Japanise in the world.

    Edit: After reading more of this thread and thinking about it, I consider you a troll.

    The Senate Floor: A Higher Form of Flamming, and now Trolling too!
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.