The Vacancy: Who Will Be Next to Join the Supreme Court?

Discussion in 'Archive: The Senate Floor' started by Vaderize03, Apr 9, 2010.

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  1. LtNOWIS Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 19, 2005
    star 4
    But you would agree that having no WASPs on the Supreme Court would be a rather remarkable historical development? Protestants make up half of the population, yet are grossly underrepresented on the Supreme Court. Religiously, the Court looks more like 1930s Poland than the United States. If you think having a modicum of diversity on the Supreme Court is desirable, which is a fairly common view, than surely it stands to reason that having 5 or 6 Catholics and no Protestants would be undesirable.
  2. Vaderize03 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 25, 1999
    star 5
    An interesting advertisement I saw today:

    It took Fox's Glenn Beck a matter of hours before going after President Obama and his next potential nominee to the Supreme Court. You know this nomination process is going to be just another of Beck's outlets to fuel right-wing rage with his obnoxious diatribes and angry conspiracy theories. On Obama's nominee, he said:

    "He'll find a gay, handicapped, black woman who's an immigrant."

    So, let me get this straight. According to Beck, President Obama isn't going to use a thoughtful, thorough, and fair process to make his decision, but will simply select the candidate who checks the most minority groups on their census form in order to make Beck irate. I'm sure President Obama thinks before every decision, "How can I make Glenn Beck mad?" How pathetic and laughable.

    We all know Glenn Beck is full of hot air - so let's make him carbon neutral. For every 5,000 people who sign the Make Glenn Beck Carbon Neutral petition, we'll plant a tree to counteract his harmful emissions. Let's see how many trees we can get planted to offset his verbal pollution.

    I think weeping willows would be particularly appropriate, given Beck's tendency to cry on the air.

    It's time for Glenn Beck to stop engaging in hate and start putting the best interests of the American people - all American people - ahead of damaging President Obama. But we're not counting on it. In the meantime, at least we can put all his hot air to good use.


    I have to see, even for Beck, this one was over the top. Is the man mentally unbalanced, or is this just an act?

    Peace,

    V-03
  3. Mr44 VIP

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2002
    star 6
    Well V, I certainly don't care about what Beck throws around, but that "advertisement" you posted above has also mischaracterized what Beck said:

    ""Mark my words, a radical is coming," Beck warned. If the president is smart, Beck said, he'll find "a gay, handicapped black woman, who's an immigrant." She could be the devil. She could say, 'I hate America. I want to destroy America.' And that way, they'll only be able to say, Why do you hate gay, immigrant, black handicapped women. Why do you hate them? Because that's what this has to be. It must be about.. And when I say this, I mean all of it.

    They must energize their base. And Their base is getting smaller and smaller. Their base is becoming unions, thugs, MoveOn.org, Huffington Post--that's their base. And anybody who has said, OK, wait a minute. I wanted universal health care. This is starting to spook me. They must make the right and the middle-right into monsters. Because they're losing those people on the middle-left ... those people on the middle-left back into their camp. And they can't do it without hatred and fear. That's all they're doing. That's why as they get louder, we must get softer.


    The focus of Beck's comments wasn't the person themselves, but the fact that he thinks Obama is going to pick someone radical, and mask them behind the laundry list of checks so they can't be criticized.

    It doesn't make it any more accurate, but the focus is different than how it was characterized above, which is kind of what Beck was rallying against. It shows that both sides are going to politicize this issue, which isn't surprising.

    Although it's interesting that Beck mentioned Huffington by name.
  4. Jabbadabbado Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Mar 19, 1999
    star 7
    Of course, when Beck says our base is getting smaller and smaller, he forgets that half of our population growth comes from Hispanic and Latino Americans who overwhelmingly vote democrat and will likely do so in 2010 and 2012.
  5. Mr44 VIP

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2002
    star 6
    Sure, Beck is Beck. It's just that as one sided as Beck's statement was, the op-ed that V supplied was just as one sided when it examined it.

    That's going to be the changing face of politics. You mention Hispanic groups who vote democratic as a group, but Hispanics are also majorly identified with institutions such as the Catholic Church, and look at other issues like same sex marriage and/or abortion through a different lens that the traditional left leaning democrats. If that's true, then if republicans default to those issues, the party might focus on small-government/fiscally responsible issues, and we'll see a mixing of the two. The future is going to see the issues become jumbled with relation to the parties themselves.
  6. Jabbadabbado Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Mar 19, 1999
    star 7
    Agreed. Democrats cannot take the Hispanic/Latino vote for granted. As Hispanic/Latinos go more and more mainstream (or redefine the mainstream) their interests will begin to coincide more and more, or for larger and larger segments, with Republican issues.

    Sorry to sidetrack the conversation. Beck can grumble that Obama's last nomination was very much about checking off exactly that Latino/Hispanic box, but he can't alter the changing demographic face of the country. It is what it is (becoming).
  7. shanerjedi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 17, 2010
    star 4
    Actually the hispanic/latino vote is more complex. It's not like the African-American vote.

    It depends on the region of the country. Some can be fairly conservative.

  8. Vaderize03 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 25, 1999
    star 5
    True, but the GOP has become too focused on social issues, IMHO.

    They risk chasing away moderate independents by constantly banging the drum on abortion and gay marriage. Yes, Hispanics tend to be Catholic, but not all of them are social warriors. Like the african-american vote, we have seen more of a focus on economic than social issues in the last election, and I expect 2010 and 2012 to be no different.

    My main point with Beck is that like Limbaugh, he makes buttloads of cash demonizing anyone and anything that doesn't fit into his idea of what America "should" be. It's frustrating, to say the least. I happen to be very fiscally conservative and sympathize with the Tea Party idea that the federal government is too large, but I am so turned off by social conservatives and their determination to dictate how I live my private life that I end up voting democrat.

    This is a "lesser of two evils" situation, and it stinks. Democrats generally are unfriendly to physicians, and it is against my economic interest to vote for them, but I don't want my children to grow up in a country that does not recognize a right to privacy, and therefore, the Supreme Court becomes an almost overriding factor when I step into the voting booth.

    That shouldn't be. The court was never meant to be so politicized, which begs the question "How do we fix it?".

    Term limit the justices? Legislate an idealogical balance with one swing vote? Suggestions?

    Peace,

    V-03
  9. KnightWriter Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 2001
    star 8
    Great article on Obama vs. Roberts here. They're both brilliant men who have achieved the highest offices in the land.
  10. Lowbacca_1977 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2006
    star 6
    The issue with trying to legislate idealogical balance is that you then fix it to only those views, and you don't let new ideologies enter the discussion.
  11. Vaderize03 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Oct 25, 1999
    star 5
    Great article, KW!

    And Lowie, I wasn't really serious, but if you stop and think about it, the Court tends to at least somewhat follow the election returns. At the very least, an unpopular decision can help build-or destroy-momentum for a particular candidate.

    Peac,e

    V-03
  12. Jabbadabbado Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Mar 19, 1999
    star 7
    Great article, KW. If Roberts can stay healthy, he'll likely have another quarter century on the bench. Kennedy and Scalia are both younger than RBG, who, given her health history, may well be the next to go. Since Obama isn't likely to have an opportunity to replace a Reagan appointee or Thomas, the focus shifts to these somewhat indistinct discussions about finding a person with the right personality to make a difference.
  13. shanerjedi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 17, 2010
    star 4
    Why don't you just vote for the libertarian then? Sounds more up your ideological alley. That's how you fix it. A viable third party.

    *awaits the expected "3rd parties have never worked in the U.S.. Teddy had the Bull Moosers and they were short-lived" onslaught*

    edit

    Disclosure: I'm a small "l" libertaran(W Speak) who votes democrat(voted for Rep. Matheson twice and tend to vote more often for D's locally just because the R's have such a inane lock on the politics in Southern Utah it's led to corruption and greasing of palms), republican, independent, or libertarian depending on the individual. I guess you could do that.

    edit2 I would like it if Obama picked Garland out of the names floating out there but he might go for Kagan.
  14. Espaldapalabras Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 25, 2005
    star 5
    This is why I oppose Kagan.

    I don't have much faith in me really likeing one of his nominees, but some choices are better than others. If he enacts real financial and whoever he picks can really have an influence on reducing corporate power while not going on culture crusades then I will be happy.
  15. Ender Sai Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 18, 2001
    star 9
    You're no doubt aware that this for-life appointment will, in short time, reflect those values when the Latino population continues to grow, right?

    As an outsider I find this anti-Catholic bias in the US hilarious. Come on guys, I mean, really? :p

    ES
  16. Fire_Ice_Death Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 15, 2001
    star 7
    Nobody likes institutionalized kiddie diddling. I think that's where it comes from.
  17. Jabbadabbado Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Mar 19, 1999
    star 7
  18. shanerjedi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 17, 2010
    star 4
    That was an 8 to 1 decision.

    Alito was the lone dissent.

    He said the videos were inhumane and showed no social value whatsoever.
  19. Jabbadabbado Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Mar 19, 1999
    star 7
    The ruling was completely straightforward:

    1. Court declines to create a new "animal cruelty" category of speech exempt from first amendment protection
    2. Consequently, the court applies strict scrutiny for a content-based prohibition
    3. the statute is overbroad and potentially captures protected speech along with "crush videos."

    states and the federal government remains free to prohibit acts of animal cruelty. What's important is the depiction.

    The one part of the opinion I don't really understand is why the child pornography analogy doesn't hold up. Depictions of child pornography are impossible to disentangle from sexual abuse of children. That seems to hold true for something like a crush video as well.

    If the underlying message is that protecting animals from cruelty isn't as important as protecting children from sexual abuse/rape, then I'm on board with that, although it isn't explicitly stated in the opinion (haven't quite finished reading it yet though). But I don't find any fundamental failure of analogy otherwise. Maybe it makes sense paired with the overbreadth claim.
  20. shanerjedi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 17, 2010
    star 4
    Actually, Chief Roberts said they weren't ruling on the constitutionality of a narrower, more targeted statute banning "crush videos", just that this specific one was overly broad and could potentially lead to the banning of hunting videos for instance.

    So we could see them come back with another law specifically targeting these types of videos.
  21. Jabbadabbado Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Mar 19, 1999
    star 7
    In any case, an 8-1 decision like this shows that the court is a lot more nuanced than the public likes to portray it, not just a bunch of ideologues lined up on either side of the liberal-conservative spectrum vying to score political points for their cause. There's a dedication to responsible jurisprudence in there too somewhere.

    This is a still from my video about how to press fresh juice from a bucket of live hamsters.

    [image=http://www.cellarrats.co.za/beaumont/images2002/pressing_grapes1.jpg]
  22. Rogue_Ten Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 18, 2002
    star 7
    I don't know if this is simply a joke or what, but Catholics were considered sub-human in the United States long before the Church became synonymous in the media with child molestation.
  23. Jabbadabbado Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Mar 19, 1999
    star 7
    Common, Rogue, that's not fair. Just because many Americans thought the Irish and Italians who brought Catholicism into the country were of an inferior stock, doesn't mean they were considered sub-human like African- and native Americans and jews.
  24. Rogue_Ten Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Aug 18, 2002
    star 7
    I'm not sure if this is a serious post, but if it is I'm not really interested in discussing the nuances of "inferior" vs "sub-human".
  25. Jabbadabbado Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Mar 19, 1999
    star 7
    not serious. I'm just saying if Catholics are auditioning for most discriminated against minority they're going to have to get to the back of the line.
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