The validity of pro-administration viewpoints

Discussion in 'Communications' started by KnightWriter, Jan 3, 2004.

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Moderators: JoinTheSchwarz, LAJ_FETT, Ramza
  1. Vertical Former Head Admin

    Member Since:
    Apr 6, 1999
    star 6
    As others have said, you'd be wise to move this discussion to your private forum.

    But since it was tossed out:

    "Besides, is it really necessary to seek greater approval for a joke that laster 28 mins (give or take), and happened in the dead of the night when hardly anyone was around?"

    The short answer to that is "Yes". This issue came up dozens of times in my day.

    Vertical
  2. epic Ex Mod / RSA

    Member Since:
    Jul 4, 1999
    star 7
    Instead, you hauled things out into Communications, where this is sure to breed Drama.

    *yawn*
  3. KnightWriter Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 2001
    star 8
    Well, I'd say this thread has been effectively derailed.

    It needs to get back on topic. Discussing the VIP demotion or related matters isn't what this thread was meant for.
  4. Vader Fett Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 18, 1999
    star 4
    heh, kinda makes you wonder if the words "due process" have any meaning around here at times...

    edit: typo
  5. MeBeJedi Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 30, 2002
    star 6
    It even makes you wonder if "due process" needs to belong here. It's not like anyone here is a paying costumer, or has a God-given right to post here.
  6. Vader Fett Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 18, 1999
    star 4
    you can't be serious. just because this is the internet doesn't mean that real life principles should not be emulated.
  7. Quixotic-Sith Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 22, 2001
    star 6
    This is off-topic, folks.

    Back on topic, there are sycophants and there are folks who simply happen to agree; I much prefer the latter, and I encourage everyone to follow their example and agree with me. :D
  8. KnightWriter Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 2001
    star 8
    Back on topic, please. Due process is not part of the main topic for discussion.
  9. MeBeJedi Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 30, 2002
    star 6
    "just because this is the internet doesn't mean that real life principles should not be emulated."

    You presume every poster here is either American, or at least comes from a country with similar democratic values.

    [EDIT]

    Oops, sorry. Dropping it. [face_blush]

    "I encourage everyone to follow their example and agree with me."

    If you were still part of the Administration, I would. ;)
  10. DarthBane420 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 13, 2003
    star 5
    KW,
    When do you think someone has stepped over the line in terms of being pro administration?
    What is the difference between a supporter and someone simply trying to ingratiate themselves, what do you look for?
    Also, Sapes seems to have a favourable view of Happy Helpers seeing them as people trying to only help, I disagree with him on this point.
    To me they seem like power hungry folks who want to get a position of authority on a Star Wars site (as ridiculous as that is in itself) and then use it for there own perpusoes against whomever they might hold a grudge against. DO you think there could be any truth to this?
  11. Quixotic-Sith Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 22, 2001
    star 6
    I think that happens, but I think that people who do that really need a healthy dose of perspective. Even being the head-admin at the largest SW message board on the internet doesn't mean you can get a date on a Saturday night.

    "Hey, baby. I moderate at the JC. Wanna have my children?"
  12. Grimby Technical Consultant

    Administrator
    Member Since:
    Apr 22, 2000
    star 7
  13. Quixotic-Sith Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 22, 2001
    star 6
    //shoots Grimby

    "MOD RAGE! MOD RAGE!"

    [/Hooper X]
  14. MeBeJedi Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 30, 2002
    star 6
    [face_laugh] I thought that was the scene from "Chasing Amy". :D
  15. KnightWriter Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 2001
    star 8
    When do you think someone has stepped over the line in terms of being pro administration?

    Is there (or can there be) such a line? If anything, I'd say it's when someone starts interfering with the administration in some way.

    What is the difference between a supporter and someone simply trying to ingratiate themselves, what do you look for?

    I look for objectivity, common sense and/or intelligence in the posts and past history.

    DO you think there could be any truth to this?

    Little to none, because there are other moderators to observe your actions. Also, I think the people we promote are generally above that sort of thing.
  16. Vader Fett Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 18, 1999
    star 4
    Helpy Helpers, DarthBane420, not Happy Helpers.


    has it been established just what exactly "pro-administration" means? does it mean "unconditional support for the administration no matter what", or does it mean "inclination to support the administration unless one disagrees on a particular issue"? is it simply a matter of having faith in the administration, or blind devotion?

    i have a dertain degree of faith in the administration overall, despite disagreeing with a lot of things, so i guess you could call me somewhat "pro-administration" if it means the latter definition and if there is no inbetween "pro-administration" and "anti-administration". however, i do not prefer to think you have to be one or the other. in fact, i completely agree with whoever said that "pro-administration" and "anti-administration" should not be benchmarks. i like to think of myself as "pro-common sense", "pro-good management", "pro-fair play", "pro-honor".
  17. DarthSapient Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jun 26, 2001
    star 10
    VIP status:

    I think there have been misunderstandings, potentially better calls that could have been made on both sides, and room for discussion and lessons learned. It doesn't need to blow up into something it's not. We can take it to the Mod Squad if you wish.

    The way I ultimately saw it is that no matter if permission was granted or not, it was the act that was taken of physically changing the colors that matters. And given the person who did it was a former manager and the person granting permission is a manager, I'm confident that rules were well-known. The permission is irrelevant.

    But in the grand scheme of things, someone changed their colors and so I don't want current mods, mods who are friends, and ex-mods to garner any resentment and/or hurt feelings over something so small as changing colors.

    Next time, I will do better to look into things further and investigate. I think the demotion was an appropriate length. It's probably the maximum length and it could have been shorter. But I'm sticking with it. There was no ban and at the end of the day I still think the right call was made. I try to be fair, understanding, and not ruin lives on a board designed to facilitate the discussion of Star Wars.

    Helpy-helpers:

    I have positive feelings towards them if their contributions aren't distracting and if the information they provide is correct. When it crosses the line, I deal with it via PM. No need to embarass the user. If the information is wrong, I point it out publicly. I get upset when people try to speak about things they have no clue about how it works. It helps nobody. A smiley emoticon behind a sentence of advice doesn't mean the advice is correct. When it comes to the system itself, you are better off to listen to current and former mods who have had access to and used the tools.

    Pro-administrative viewpoints:

    The whole saying, "I agree with the administration on this issue," is about me. I was a helpy-helper. So I tend to sympathize. All I really wanted to do was to help the boards. And I see that in those we call helpy-helpers now. But being a moderator for some time, I can also see that the help doesn't always come across that way.

    I see no problem with people saying they want to be a mod. Anyone who took the position wanted to be a mod. We don't promote people who don't want to be mods. All mods are helpy-helpers and they all had to start somewhere and do things that got them noticed. So we shouldn't forget where we came from but we can't allow wrong information and over-the-top campaigning to be the norm either.
  18. Vertical Former Head Admin

    Member Since:
    Apr 6, 1999
    star 6
    "All mods are helpy-helpers and they all had to start somewhere and do things that got them noticed"

    I was made a mod because I was sexy.

    Was.

    Vertical
  19. farraday Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 27, 2000
    star 7
    I was made a mod because vert was sexy.

    Was.

    o_O
  20. Vertical Former Head Admin

    Member Since:
    Apr 6, 1999
    star 6
    It's what is commonly referred to as the "Vert is sexy" era, where there was a great ushering in of moderators, all because I was sexy.

    And it was good.

    Vertical
  21. DarthSapient Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jun 26, 2001
    star 10
  22. Vader Fett Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 18, 1999
    star 4
    i biggest problem i've always had with helpy helpers is when they act as if they are part of the administration and speaking on it's behalf.

    i don't agree that all mods were helpy helpers at one time. sape, i think you've kinda watered down the meaning of 'helpy helper'. when i created/defined the term it was meant for the extreme cases. and i'm sure many of us remember a few examples of such from last spring. (ugh)
  23. MeBeJedi Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 30, 2002
    star 6
    Not that I've encountered a "Helpy Helper", but are you referring to them simply restating the TOS or reminding others to use good manners?

    What are they doing that makes them "Mod-like"?
  24. Vertical Former Head Admin

    Member Since:
    Apr 6, 1999
    star 6
    I see the issue of 'helpy helpers' much like that of over-zealous ushers at church. They wear those silly little ribbons that say "Usher", but, honestly, we all know they're not even on the chain of command in the church, they just like pretending!

    I tried to write that as funnily as possible, but I don't think it worked.

    See? I'm not sexy anymore. Thus, no mod-ship. :(

    Vertical
  25. farraday Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 27, 2000
    star 7
    I see them more like the person who wears combat fatigues to neighborhood watch meetings.
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