PT The vote of nonconfidence - was it raised with Amidala approval?

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by mihaitzateo, Mar 17, 2017.

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  1. mihaitzateo Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Oct 5, 2015
    star 3
    When the vote of nonconfidence is started by one of Queen Amidala/Padme decoys, was it made with Padme approval?
    What role does this vote has in ascension of Palpatine as supreme chancellor?
    If this vote would not have been raised, do you think Palpatine had also other options, to have someone else triggering a vote of nonconfidence in Valorum?
  2. Lady_Skywalker87 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 4, 2008
    star 4
    Hello,
    Your first question is a bit puzzling to me, since its made clear with the "her heart goes with you" scene that makes it clear that not only Padmè's indeed The Queen of Naboo, but she's the one who addresses Senate. What made you think it was a decoy?:confused:

    2. Central Role. I believe that Palps worked hard in his years as Senator to undermine the Chancellor and the likes of Amedda & Moor in his pocket even before Padmè's election as queen...the way that he tells her that their plight would gain them sympathy gives me that vibe.

    3. Yes, using always political power in Naboo as the background. If there's anything to be taken from the stupid Blue Virus arc in TCW is the confirmation of said scenario.
    Last edited by Lady_Skywalker87, Mar 17, 2017
  3. Mostly Handless Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Feb 11, 2017
    star 3
    @mihaitzateo If you are referring to the senate scene in TPM, it is Padme/Amidala herself who makes the call for a vote of no confidence, that undermines Valorum's government. Albeit at the goading of Sidious.
    Valorum's fall from power left the position vacant for Palpatine/Sidious amongst other politicians to run for the position of Supreme Chancellor, which Palpatine wins via sympathy vote due to the Naboo crisis.
    I think you are correct in supposing that in the event if Amidala herself had not been around to call the vote, Palpatine had other pawns in the senate that could have played the same role.
  4. Alexrd Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 7, 2009
    star 5
    What decoy? It's Padmé.
  5. mihaitzateo Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Oct 5, 2015
    star 3
    Her voice does not sounds as Padme voice.
    It sounds like Sabe (one of her decoys) voice.
  6. Alexrd Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 7, 2009
    star 5
    It's not meant to sound like her, it's meant to sound like the Queen. Padmé only uses her normal voice when she's disguised as an handmaiden.
    Last edited by Alexrd, Mar 18, 2017
  7. darth-sinister Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2001
    star 10
    Let's make this simple:

    [IMG]


    [IMG]

    [IMG]

    [IMG]

    That's Padme.

    [IMG]

    [IMG]

    That's Sabine, her decoy and handmaiden.

    Lucas had altered Natalie Portman's voice when she's in makeup and had her dub her lines over Keira Knightly's voice. Lucas used this trick again in "Attack Of The Clones" by having Portman's voice dubbed over Veronica Segura's, who played Corde.
  8. Padema Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 11, 2007
    star 1
    It seems like they had a sort of formal accent for speaking when in the full queen regalia. I've sort of wondered also if those elaborate costumes had some sort of speech altering technology built into them. You know, just sort of a fan theory. They really do look alike when made up as the queen, don't they? Although, I think Sabe played by Kiera Knightly might be a little bit taller. Or is she?
  9. Alexrd Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 7, 2009
    star 5
    Those are all Padmé (Natalie Portman). The only parts where Padmé is not the Queen is when they are sent to be processed by Gunray on Naboo all the way through until after the air taxi sequence on Coruscant, and finally during the assault on Theed's palace.
    Last edited by Alexrd, Mar 18, 2017
  10. Sanguinius Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Mar 1, 2017
    >When the vote of nonconfidence is started by one of Queen Amidala/Padme decoys, was it made with Padme approval?

    It was Padme herself making the statement to the senate, even if it wasn't though her decoy would be speaking with her voice so it wouldn't have mattered

    >What role does this vote has in ascension of Palpatine as supreme chancellor?

    It allows him to make a move in the senate and attain the status as Supreme Chancellor because of the vote for the next supreme chancellor

    >If this vote would not have been raised, do you think Palpatine had also other options, to have someone else triggering a vote of nonconfidence in Valorum?

    Probably, Palpatine has always been the type to always have a plan, if it didn't play out it would have still all been according the keikaku. He's not going to lose the ability to gain power to overthrow the republic, too many years worth of planning and training.
  11. Mostly Handless Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Feb 11, 2017
    star 3
    @mihaitzateo Part of the reason Portman sounds so monotone in her Queen scenes is because her voice was shifted down in pitch during Post-production. (Lucas wanted that effect BTW) Thus her intonation becomes less distinguishable from that of Sabe, her decoy.
    Here you can see them side by side with Sabe (Kiera Knightly) disguised as the queen.
    [IMG][IMG]
    In this shot from the movie's last scene I believe Knightly is the handmaiden standing to the left of Obi-wan.
    [IMG]
    But I promise that it is Portman wearing the Kabuki make-up during the senate scene.
    [IMG]

    @Padema I always thought it was likely they were trained to speak alike. Though I think you are right, Sabe is a little taller.
    Last edited by Mostly Handless, Mar 18, 2017
  12. Sanguinius Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Mar 1, 2017
    I never knew Keira Knightley was playing the decoy, that's really neat.
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  13. Padema Jedi Master

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    Mar 11, 2007
    star 1
    I think Natalie has a slightly rounder face than Kiera as well.

    I wonder if it was meant that QuiGon and ObiWan didn't know she was the real queen all along?
    Last edited by Padema, Mar 18, 2017
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  14. Subtext Mining Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 27, 2016
    star 2
    In the TPM commentary Lucas says Qui-Gon & Obi-Wan knew Padme was the Queen.
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  15. darkspine10 I forget why he has colours but still has them

    Member Since:
    Dec 7, 2014
    star 5
    You mean Sabe, her decoy and handmaiden. :p
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  16. jaqen Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 22, 2004
    star 4

    Palpatine always has other options.
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  17. mihaitzateo Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Oct 5, 2015
    star 3
    This is why I was thinking, also.
    And Palpatine was also a representative of Naboo in Galactic Parliament together with Padme/Queen Amidala, I think.
    The question is, why is later Dooku attempting to assassinate Padme?
    Was Dooku put to do that by Palpatine or Padme had become a pain for Palpatine,now that he was supreme Chancellor?
    If I do remember right, is the representative of the Gungans who makes the speech to give Palpatine supreme powers,in episode 2.
    The representatives of Naboo have a very unhappy part in raising of Palpatine to supreme power.
  18. Subtext Mining Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 27, 2016
    star 2
    So was it Sabe's place to decide to go to Coruscant? Or was there a code in Padme saying "We are brave, your Highness" that expressed her desire to take that option?
    Last edited by Subtext Mining, Mar 19, 2017
  19. darkspine10 I forget why he has colours but still has them

    Member Since:
    Dec 7, 2014
    star 5
    Seems like a code to me. Sabe looks to Padme as she says "Either choice presents great danger", and Padme gives her reply that she is brave, showing her approval to head for Coruscant.
    Last edited by darkspine10, Mar 19, 2017
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  20. Iron_lord Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 2, 2012
    star 8
    In the books, I think there was reference to that being a code, at least. Makes sense that Sabe is asking for Padme's input when she looks at her and says "Either choice presents great danger to all of us".
  21. Mostly Handless Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Feb 11, 2017
    star 3
    Yes I was surprised to learn that bit of trivia myself, but it is her.:)

    Clearly the level of secrecy surrounding the production of TFA, R1, ect. isn't new.:p[face_laugh]
    Last edited by Mostly Handless, Mar 19, 2017
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  22. jaqen Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 22, 2004
    star 4

    Padme was a wild card that Sidious had trouble controlling. He used her as a pawn in TPM, but she turned out to be more aggressive, and less malleable, than he thought. He was shocked that she actually took measures to fight back on behalf of her people. The plight on Naboo was suppose lead to his Chancellorship, but not end with a protracted battle with his TF forces.

    FFWD 10 years and this aggressive Padme is still standing in the way of his plans. She's leading the cause to stop the creation of the Grand Army of the Republic, Forces that Palpatine needs to eventually keep his planned Empire in order. Also if one of the assassination attempts had worked, Padme's death would've been blamed on Dooku's separatist movement, and would've been just the fuel he needed to drive some other senator to lead the charge for proposing emergency powers be given to Palpatine.

    Sidious had several scenarios in which Padme's death could serve his plans. It just didn't finally come together until ROTS.
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  23. Alexrd Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 7, 2009
    star 5
    The Jedi knew. That's why Qui-Gon kept teasing her on Tatooine and why they both smiled out of recognition when Padmé reveals herself to be the Queen.
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  24. I Are The Internets Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 20, 2012
    star 8
    Always confused 7 year old me when they did that revelation.
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  25. Organafan Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Jan 14, 2017
    star 1
    I have to remember this movie is almost twenty years old and a whole generation of people have come about. They weren't around when it was new and this all was discussed or in the news. Keira Knightly became known because of it, and was the draw for Star Wars fans to movies like "Bend It Like Beckham" and that "Princess of Thieves" Robin Hood TV movie before the "Pirates of the Caribbean" movies elevated her status. I never thought they looked alike; only once being confused in the theater when Padme introduced herself to Jar Jar because I'd heard Natalie Portman was playing a queen.
    Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon traded a look after Padme revealed herself to Boss Nass. I took that as suggesting that one of them previously guessed it and mentioned it to the other but didn't quite believe it, or felt embarrassed for not knowing.
    Last edited by Organafan, Mar 19, 2017
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