The Vulgarity of Star Wars

Discussion in 'Literature' started by Bubba, May 29, 2001.

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  1. Bubba Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 10, 2000
    star 5
    Now, I'm not sure if anybody has noticed this yet, but echostation.com has brought up a point that Star Wars ads and books are becoming a tad more vulgar.

    Take for instance that ad for the Darth Maul comic series. "Sith Happens." Now, don't get me wrong, a nice does of profanity here in there is nice, but when young readers are about to get their hands on this, I'm not sure why they're exposed to this sort of material. "One Horny Politician" doesn't help either.

    And when people are gasping and being all surprised about Lorn Pavan saying "Who PISSED in your power supply," don't forget in The Mandalorian Armor that Bossk said "piss" as well. What's wrong with that? Well, I just wanted to clear that up. :)
  2. Vergere Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 19, 2000
    star 5
    i think that people were so shocked when Reaves included profanity because it is so rarely seen in the books. i for one was.

    personally, i found the "Sith Happens" add very amusing :) i don't know what point you want to make about it...are you saying that the younger readers should be considered and the add shouldn't be published?
  3. Bubba Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 10, 2000
    star 5
    I was amused as well. "For Siths and giggles," maybe? :)

    Well, I'm just saying, mind the minds of younger readers, and give OLDER people, young adults, etc. the nice profanity we deserve. :) In a nutshell: careful, LucasBooks.
  4. Vergere Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 19, 2000
    star 5
    well if there's too much profanity included, then it wouldn't feel like star wars...there isn't that much precedent for it, especially in the movies(yeah, ok, "damn" and "hell" aren't really swearing ;)).

    remember, kids read the novels as well. i started reading them in 6th grade. i know what you mean, though. after a point, the "Han said a few choice words" sentences become old.
  5. Bubba Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 10, 2000
    star 5
    Yeah, you're right. But the classic line in The Empire Strikes Back always stuck with me. ;)
  6. Lott_Dod Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 19, 2001
    star 4
    Trying to censor everything for young readers is not what I would consider good. I think it is good for young readers to have a diverse background of literature that includes all types of themes. It is necessary for them to include "vulgarity" in order to attract new fans IMO. :)
  7. Wedge 88 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 16, 1999
    star 6
  8. The Cat Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 24, 2000
    star 3
    "I think it is good for young readers to have a diverse background of literature that includes all types of themes."

    Sorry, but "diverse literature" does not include anything Star Wars related, it's just a bunch of slapped together marketed corporate pop culture stuff meant to get consumers to fork over dispensible income, which thousands happily do, me and you included! So to get kids acquainted with the harsh realities of the real world, give them a copy of "The Things They Carried," not "Darth Maul: Shadow Hunter."

    IMO, Star wars can and should do without the increasing vulgarity. Like Atticus Finch said, it's common. Having an alien remark that Darth Maul "must have really pissed off the wrong guy," and Han Solo comment that he "doesn't give a vrelt's ass" adds too much colloquialism into the GFFA. What's next, Anakin Solo bragging that he's da bomb?
  9. anyueman Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Aug 11, 2000
    star 1
    Good points, The Cat. :)

    Where's the Han Solo quote from? I can't pinpoint it.
  10. The Cat Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 24, 2000
    star 3
    It's from The Paradise Snare, and I think he's on the automated ship speaking to the R2 unit.
  11. LaraNotsil Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 18, 2000
    star 4
    There is no such thing as too much vulgarity! ;)

    //yawn
  12. UlicSadow Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    May 13, 2001
    instead of trying to censor everything from kids teach them the difference btween right and wrong. every piece of sw lit doesnt have to have a "star wars feel" to it. things are redundant enough as is
  13. Darth Cerberus Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 12, 1999
    star 3
    I think some people here have a very patronising attitude towards younger readers. If these kids aren't already familiar with such language they soon will be. The EU is trying to cater for a far more diverse audience than most scifi series. It's a little ridiculous complaining that NJO books are too juvenile for more mature readers then turn around and argue that the vulgarity is inappropriate for the younger readers. Terms like 'piss' are very tame compared to the sort of language you see elsewhere. Ask the kids themselves if they have a problem with such language. Ask yourself if you would have had a problem with this at a younger age. Assume (however incorrectly) that parents monitor what kids read.


  14. Commander Antilles Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 21, 1999
    star 6
    Do you see people saying "piss" or "b******d" in the films? Then why should they in the books?
  15. The Cat Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 24, 2000
    star 3
    Although I'm not quite certain exactly what "b********d" is supposed to mean, Commander Antilles has a great point.

    And, if SW lit doesn't have a Star Wars feel to it, then it's not Star Wars and shouldn't be labeled as such.

    If profanity would really liven up the EU like some think, then why stop there? Why not include detailed sex scenes, too? A nice long, drawn out sequence of Luke udressing Mara, and everything that happens thereafter. That would sure get readers. Kids need to learn about the birds and the bees from somewhere, right? Maybe the next novel should feature Jaina losing her virginity as a major plot point. Or maybe, just maybe, Star Wars should retain the same sense of decency it had from the beginning.
  16. Bubba Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 10, 2000
    star 5
    No, the perverted fanfics out there have already done that. :)
  17. Destiny_Skywalker Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 12, 2000
    star 3
    "No, the perverted fanfics out there have already done that." -- LOL Bubba!

    As for being patronizing towards the younger readers, I think I knew every swear I know today by the time I was 6 from the playground. Now I'm not saying they should have F*** and S*** and stuff like that in Star Wars, but "piss" is not a big deal. "Ass" I guess could push it, but it depends on the context in which it is used. In I, Jedi, Corran Horn is expecting someone to make a "wiseass" remark. That's not too awful. "Sith" I think is a funny replacement for S*** and all that stuff. I like Star Wars swears, they're kinda funny. "Stang", "Emperor's Black Bones", etc... Besides, kids are probably too young to pick up on that stuff. An obvious swear they would recognize... something like that they won't even think about.
  18. Ysanne Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Aug 25, 1999
    star 1
    Star Wars language is much more decent and cultivated than what you hear in the real word, be it at the playground, at school or at home. I don't think any child of an age when it can read a book hasn't heard almost all swearwords that exist -- and been probably told by his/her parents that it's not ok to use them too frequently.
    So the watered-down language of SW is no big additional threat to a child's language.
    Of course, there is the bigger question "What is so bad about a child reading a swearword?" Especially when it is totally realistic for a character to use auch a word.
    I don't think it is harmful; actually IMO this big fuss about children hearing/reading swearwords is pure hypocrisy of some oh-so-decent people.
  19. Valiento Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 19, 2000
    star 7
    I hate Censorship. Especially when it attacks such children's classics as Huck Finn and Tom Sawyer, etc. Books that have bad language, but were meant to show you how people really were at that time, or place.

    Every year you hear about classics being banned from schools, or books getting special cleansed up versions, well it's not right. When a story is portraying real life, it shouldn't be made cleaner, when it was gritty and cruel period in time.

    Do I want Swear words in star wars? Personally I don't care, if they put them in. I've read plenty of children's classics that were full of swear words. Why should star wars be censored any? It would add extra realism that other books including some children's classics have. If the author chooses not to put any swear words in, who cares as long as the story was entertaining. It's not really something important to worry about.

    Censorship of classics is were the trouble lies. That is what we have to worry about. I mean what next, censorship of the bible? I mean the Holy Book does have some rather rauchy sex scenes, and some very brutal death scenes. Let me tell you, I know alot of parents that get there children to read it, or read it to there children. Yet no one makes a big deal "yet". Nor should a big deal be made about it in the future.

    Censorship goes against free speech, at least we america have that luxery. Anything that goes against that ability to have free speech is quite wrong. this is why censorship is very bad.

    It should be stopped.
  20. FTeik Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 7, 2000
    star 4
    Compared to the things going on in the real world i don´t think a little vulgarity in SW can do a lot of damage. Today schools, playgrounds and the role-models the adults present are much more dangerous.

    "I never had an affair with this woman, Ms. Lewinsky.

    Now guess where and with whom on how much TV-Stations this was shown.
  21. CountJared Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 10, 2000
    star 3
    Darth Cerebus-
    "It's a little ridiculous complaining that NJO books are too juvenile for more mature readers then turn around and argue that the vulgarity is inappropriate for the younger readers."

    I would say that they are part of the same problem. Immaturity and vulgarity often go hand in hand. Think Jim Carrey or the WWF. (and though I find Jim Carrey funny, I do think he is immature and vulgar) Or the NWO. Funny how that sounds like NJO. Shooting for the same market? WWF meets SW. Never thought I'd see the day.
  22. LanceJade Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 26, 2001
    star 4
    I have a list somewhere of star wars swears... it was in a SWRPG source book. Personally, I have always enjoyed them... they are funny and no one knows what your talking about.

    I used the word "Stang" at work (ya, maybe Im pathetic) but the look that was given me was classic. Using these Star Wars words adds a little to the stories. Lets avoid though using the common english swears. Especially "ass" - it wouldn't fit. On the other hand if we use the word ARSE in Star Wars, it might fit quite well.

    Just my 2 cents...
  23. Valiento Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 19, 2000
    star 7
    I Saw Stang in other comics besides star wars, I've seen it old archie comics(when I was younger that was all my mom would let me look at.) I'm sure I've seen it in some of my friends marvel x-men, or some DC comics.
  24. Inari_Icewalker Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 23, 2001
    star 2
    Regarding the "Sith Happens" piece appearing in the Dark Horse Maul comics...it is possible this might be a little fandom "nod of acknowledgement, if you will.

    There is a site which ostensibly originated that phrase and has been using it since at least shortly after the release of TPM:

    http://www.siubhan.com/sithacademy/

    It's called the Sith Academy. It'd be nice to think that at least once in a while, the fans *do* get acknowledged...if indeed that's the case here, even if the reference is a bit off-color.

    Oh, and if you're squeamish and don't like vulagarity or are under 18 years old, don't click on that URL.



  25. Jedi Ben Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jul 19, 1999
    star 6
    Funny how people talk of a content being inappropriate often leads to talk of censorship.

    Censoring classics like Dickens or Shakespeare is wrong, but I do not see how such acts can be linked to the discussion underway here.

    The general Q, proposed by Commander Antilles, is that if the characters do not swear in the films then why shuld they in the books?

    The Cat has provided the best answer to this. If a book has the name SW on it, it should be true to its source material ie. the films, since the films do not have characters swearing, nor should the books. If they do, then they should not claim to be SW. There are other stories that do a more adult theme and tone better e.g. Night's Dawn or The Gap Series.

    This is not censorship, it is being true to the source material. The argument that children will already know swearwords is irrelevant. What children do and do not know is not the issue, accuracy to the source material known is.

    Censorship is when an agency external to the author and publisher of a book censors that story, even though the makers consider it to be acceptable for the market place. When an author refuses to include certain elements, or the publisher revises a story to remove certaion elements, this may be called self-censorship. It may also be termed editing.

    As for the films, alien curses are quite OK. Hell is not swearing, it's blasphemy. Damn is technically swearing but you'd have to go back 50 years for it to be a socially unacceptable, that is stigmatised, which denotes a swearword, for use in polite conversation. The UK comic 2000AD got round such restrictions like use of the word God as a curse in 1977 by creating the word Grud. SW has done similar in the EU products.

    Regards

    Jedi Ben
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