The Vulgarity of Star Wars

Discussion in 'Literature' started by Bubba, May 29, 2001.

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  1. Dewlanna Solo Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 31, 1999
    star 4
    Val, the main reason Huck Finn has been controversial has nothing to do with language or grammer. It is due the content of the book.
    Huck helps a run away slave.
    Huck treats a black man as an equal.
    These ideas were very threatening to many people.
    Huck Finn was in trouble with the establishment from the time it was published.
    You'd think in this day and age, equality wouldn't frighten people so much, but it still does.

  2. Valiento Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 19, 2000
    star 7
    "Val, the main reason Huck Finn has been controversial has nothing to do with language or grammer. It is due the content of the book.
    Huck helps a run away slave.
    Huck treats a black man as an equal.
    These ideas were very threatening to many people.
    Huck Finn was in trouble with the establishment from the time it was published.
    You'd think in this day and age, equality wouldn't frighten people so much, but it still does."

    Your not around from where I am now are you?.

    Were I live, and the people I talked too, not neccerily my school mind you, they are against The grammer and language. Equality is not really an issue, as the fact is that we have mixed culture around here. It still arises from time to time but not always.

    But overall the book get's hammered because of it's language, here. I'm sorry my point went way over your head, and that you live in a place were things are still Backwords, with racism.
  3. jastermereel Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 19, 1998
    star 4
    the cat...your last post was reminicient of EP1 Yoda...fear leads to anger...etc......and yet...lacked his wisdom...look at it from the other side......each of the victems is found in a sparkling clean concervative buisness suit and no one dead or alive is seen in anything less than full uniform......possible to do a show that way?...yes...but would it have the same sort of grity realism? no......and while its true that while having that sort of imagery does appeal to the group of viewers who watch shows for the basest of reasons (who you seem to speak for quite adimantly)......it adds to it for other reasons as well......in otherwords...just because something in the show may attract viewers for different reasons doesn't mean its in there for the lowest and most base of those reasons......in many movies if you remove the grittier (but possibly attactive to some audiences) of the imagery that gives a setting its full feel and nearness to realism it looses the appeal it held to the normal viewers not because the imagery was removed but because the effect it upheld disapears............all in all this is rather irrelevant anyway as it seems that sex isn't the issue so much as linguistic vulgarity......additionaly...watch the show before you tear at it so heavily in both here and other threads where it is even less relevant......really...what is your problem with the show?...
  4. CountJared Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 10, 2000
    star 3
    On Huck Finn-

    It was controversial when it came out for the reasons Dewlanna outlined above. It tends to be banned by grade schools and high schools for its language. The grammar is obviously a part of the feel of the book. It was intended to capture the backwoods speech patterns that would have been present during the time. English teachers don't assign it to be read as an example of proper english.

    Notice how I've made my point without insulting anybody? I'm sorry if my point went "way over" anybody's head. I wouldn't want anyone to accuse me of neccerily being Backwords, in my grammer. But then Your not around from where I am now are you?.
  5. I-poodoo Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 1, 2001
    star 4
    Remember you opened the can of worms R.A.

    But if you insist. VP seemed a bit rushed to me. I think if you had more time, more pages to work with (more length), and more conceptionalization time it would've turned out better.
    True, you were trying to launch a brand new storyarc and establish new characters, but I feel that some of that characterization was sorta half-baked (the characters Nom Anor, the Vong agent Karr, and the Vong in general was rather one dimensional, but that's plagued the Vong and Vong characters until Greg Keyes wrote Vua Rapuung in Conquest)
    Also there was the whole death of Chewie thing...not exactly something to endear a new author to fans. I know I took badly, and was pissed at you, but as the NJO has progressed I geuss I've grieved and moved on past Sernpidal.

    Anyway Mr. Salvatore you wanted the problems I had reading VP there you go.

    What I liked about it was the burst bubble of invincibility thing.
    No longer will Han run screaming after storm troopers only to run away from them while lasers make a silhouette of him running at the end hallway's wall. Nope in NJO Stormtroopers will have atleast decent aim, and lightsabers won't cut through Vong armor.
    You did a great job expressing that aspect of the new Del Rey storyline.
  6. BYOB_Kenobi Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 7, 2000
    star 5
    Is it not reasonable that vulgarity or curse words can be used in a character's dialogue to help convey emotions like anger and frustration? Or would writing such things betray a weakness in the author?

    I suppose Shakespeare got by well enough on his wit without bringing his characters' verse down to the level of the common raving mad drunk, but characters such as his aren't really found in Star Wars literature.
  7. The Cat Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 24, 2000
    star 3
  8. MaceWinducannotdie Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 31, 2001
    star 4
    Let's not stop at keeping all of the bad words out. Let's start a petition for clean version of the movies. Because some sensitive minded people might get uncomfortable when Maul says "At last we will reveal ourselves to the Jedi," or when Wedge refers to "the size of that thing." ;)
  9. RingoJuna Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jan 18, 2001
    star 3
    Ok, Earth profanity bad: I can handle that

    Sex bad: Ok

    Violence: i'd say give us one out of three. If I had to choose, i'd want the violence to stay.
  10. EnforcerSG Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 12, 2001
    star 4
    Ohh yes, all the Sithspawn and Blast, gasp, it is so vulgar, and the ideas of honesty and the "light side" being better than evil, just so impure!
  11. Genghis12 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 18, 1999
    star 6
    BYOB_Kenobi...
    "I suppose Shakespeare got by well enough on his wit without bringing his characters' verse down to the level of the common raving mad drunk, but characters such as his aren't really found in Star Wars literature."

    Wrong. Shakespeare essentially did "bring his verse down to the level of the common raving mad drunk." However, people today won't recognize that fact. It's "user-error" which caused your opinion when looked at in the modern day without knowledge of the past times.

    Numerous examples easily spring to mind. "Get thee to a nunnery" doesn't mean a woman should join a Catholic order for women. A "nunnery" essentially meant a whorehouse. Not a sugar-coated euphemism for a "brothel," but a whorehouse.

    Of course there's other such examples. Another example is "runnion," a not-so-nice term for a skaggy woman. There was also "giglot," which is a bit worse term for a woman that sleeps around and would likely get you banned here. That's not to say he didn't take the high road of utilizing non-vulgar euphamisms like "stale" for prositutes. He did that too. But, when he wished to make a point, he used the "vulgar" words instead.

    But, there were all sorts of people "dallying" in his works - the slang term of the day for shagging. You know, not making love or romance, but simply engaging in the physical act.

    As for adolescent-humor and other raunchiness, he talked about quats (zits).

    As for frat-boy humor, he of course joked about quatch-buttocks (large butt) and pin-buttocks (skinny butt).

    Shakespeare did indeed speak to the level his plays were written at - the common masses. It had the sex, it had the blood and it certainly had the language. However, when read today, you will most likely only catch the sex and violence and miss most of the foul language. You won't recognize them today, because today, they're no longer vulgar.
  12. jastermereel Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 19, 1998
    star 4
    Exactly...while considered high literature today...Shakespear was indeed for the masses......he had to be...they were a few scant feet away from the stage...sometimes they were even on it.........if they got bored or didn't like what they saw...they could cause a riot...

    Shakespear seems to fall prey to the common error many people make with literature, and art in general......Many people think that if they can't understand it...it must be fine art or quality literature for it goes over their head......but many times it either devoid of any meaning or hard to understand given its ancient manner either in linguistic style or in visual or literary refrences......

    Then again...saying that the vugarity and violence are there simply to appease the masses doesn't help our side of the argument either...
  13. MaceWinducannotdie Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 31, 2001
    star 4
    Do you see people saying "piss" or "b******d" in the films? Then why should they in the books?

    Umm... because the we assume that not every word in the vocabulary of people in the GFFA has been said in a film? OK, that's me shooting my smart mouth off. What I assume you mean is that the novels should follow the tone set by the films by maybe using "hell" and "damn" conservatively. But let's face it, the movies are made with the intent of parents bringing the little ones (don't believe me? Look at Jar Jar. And do we really think the most the dregs of the galaxy would say is "poodoo"?). And that's fine; far be it from somebody who fell in love with Star Wars at age eight to protest that. But the novels aren't for the eight-year-olds. At least not the full-length ones containing "piss" and "b-----d." And come on, kids learn the words at a young age. Even if parents do everything in their power to keep their kid from learning bad words exist, there is always that other little kid who has parents that don't really care if he picks up some course language.
  14. MaceWinducannotdie Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 31, 2001
    star 4
  15. Altima Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Oct 20, 2001
    star 1
    Keep in mind that the original trilogy was made in the late 70's and early 80's. I doubt people had anything like Britney Spears practically streaking across the stage or Samuel L. Jackson going MF repeatedly at the MTV Movie Awards. It's merely a sign that our culture has advanced to a more open frame of mind. While the prequels are certainly keeping in tune with the 70's-80's "decency", keep in mind that it's George Lucas's first attempt at directing Star Wars in a long time. Naturally, authors are going to have a fairly different attitude towards approaching the EU than Lucas would.

    I saw one comment on how cursing and vulgarity detracts from Star Wars rather than adding to it. Well, I put this to a test- I watched A New Hope last night and pictured Han Solo spouting off modern-day swears, and no, I cannot see him going "mother-f***er" like mad. But while looking over the movie, I also could not see Yuuzhan Vong popping up and chopping off heads with amphistaffs. So you may want to consider that even if Star Wars has gone from "damn fool" to "Sith happens", it's also gone from Imperials trying to kill Luke Skywalker to Imperials trying to help Luke Skywalker.

    Things change.
  16. Genghis12 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 18, 1999
    star 6
    Jastermeerel...
    "Then again...saying that the vugarity and violence are there simply to appease the masses doesn't help our side of the argument either..."

    Well, if the NJO is to be the Shakespeare of Star Wars literature, it could certainly have done much worse. :D Because that's essentially what the NJO is, well it's essentially what all EU Lit. is.
  17. Bubba Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 10, 2000
    star 5
    Thank you for resurrecting this, as we've seen some new possibly inappropriate elements in some new books recently. And in real life. [face_plain]
  18. skawookiee Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 12, 2000
    star 4
    I don't think vulgarity in Star Wars is even a matter of censorship. I think that parents should do the censoring, istead of letting the media do it for them. However, I don't think Star Wars should need to be censored by parents. If I was a parent, I would want to be able to share Star Wars with my kids without having to worry about inappropriate material that they might be exposed to. It's not about censorship, it's about maintaining a high level of integrity that everyone can enjoy.
  19. Bubba Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 10, 2000
    star 5
    Speaking of censorship, I've heard that Star by Star won't be tampered with in the wake of Sept. 11.
  20. The Cat Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Mar 24, 2000
    star 3
    Well, don't expect Lando to be leveling anymore Coruscant skyscrapers like in SotE, or anymore "heroic" suicide runs into the bridge of a SSD.
  21. Bubba Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 10, 2000
    star 5
    Well, those were fun while they lasted. [face_plain]
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