The War Room: Open Forum

Discussion in 'Phoenix, AZ' started by wardenx, Jul 9, 2003.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Princess_Skywalker_ Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Nov 5, 2002
    star 4
    My opinions on children are based on my own likes and more so dislikes of childhood, always being the "babysitter" for everyone, and being around kids, etc.

    I love kids, and I would probably still like to have them someday, but I also think that if I can't do the job right, I won't do it at all. Kids need lots of unconditional love and support. Above all else, I really think that is the primary need for them. If I ever get to a place where I think I am finally ready for kids, I will have them, if not, I won't. Cause I would never put my future kids thru any of the crap I went thru.
  2. PtrsonsZOO Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 30, 2001
    star 7
    What we really need to do is not make it a crime to NOT HAVE CHILDREN!!!! When people hear that I wouldn't want o have children, even if I could I get the worst lecture/guilt trip imagineable.

    You want to help people who should not be having children, then stop penalizing the people who hve chosen not to have children... Give us leave days, to counteract all the family days people w/ children are given. Don't dismiss their ideas, simply because they "aren't a parent." Sometimes a fresh perspective is vital to keeping things going.

    Next time you talk to someone who says, "No, I don't want children." Don't give them a guilt trip and tell them all the things they are missing. Thank them for making such a responsible decision. :)
  3. wardenx Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 23, 2003
    star 3
    Agreed, ladies. :D I have far to many things I need to do in my life to give it u for children. My life is centered around helping people, to get to a place where I can start a school to teach. I want to help people become better people so that they can go out and make the world a better place. I want to make a place for the growth of the human potential and a safe place to learn and practice new skills for the betterment of society. If I have children, I would have to put everything else on hold or forget it. Because, to me, when you have children, EVERYTHING else is secondary. Nothing matters but those children. I would have to sacrifice helping all those other people in order to raise a child. I don't think I can do that.
  4. Princess_Skywalker_ Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Nov 5, 2002
    star 4
    amen.
    I've seen firsthand what happens when people who SHOULDN'T have children DO.
  5. jada_marnew Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 22, 2003
    star 5
    I am not a fan of the Clinton's. However, one thing Hillary Clinton said is how I view childrearing:

    It's take a village to raise a child

    As a parent, I need others to come along side of me to help me with raising this child. I need people who volunteer for youth groups, sunday school, who teach martial arts, arts, music, etc. I am but one woman and I don't know it all (I didn't just admit that! [face_shocked]).

    So those who choose to dedicate themselves to helping others especially those who help children are part of my village or some other parent's village.

    It shouldn't be a "crime" not to have children. And nobody should have to get a guilt trip just because they have chosen that for themselves. I know I slip occassionally (OH, there's just nothing like a child) but I know that I originally choose not to have children because this world is a difficult place.
  6. wardenx Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 23, 2003
    star 3
    It doesn't take a village to rasie a child, JADA. But I understand what you are trying to say and I sort of agree. It takes a parent (or two) to raise a child. It is the parent who decides what influences to put that child under. The parent decides what schools to put their child in and what extra-cirricular activities to allow them to participate in. Those of us who have something to share or teach, can only do so if the parent gives us permission (without going beyond prescribed limits, that is). We can help if the parent asks for it. It doesn't take a village. The liberal agenda uses that as a platform to insinuate themselves into the rearing of our children. Just like they are trying to make it mandatory for children to go to state regulated preschool. That way they can get their grubby paws on our children at an even earlier age to twist their minds with the crap our kids are already being fed at school.
  7. Princess_Skywalker_ Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Nov 5, 2002
    star 4
    I don't agree with that at all wardenx.

    While I DO know there were things in school that teachers tried to shove down my throat, one example is my 10th grade People & Politics teacher who tried to CRAM the idea that the democratic party was the only way to go into our heads (he went so far as to have a speaker from that party ONLY in our class discussions)...

    I don't believe MOST of my teachers had an agenda. Maybe it's different now. But I know a lot of them just encouraged morals, values, treating others with respect, doing our best to help others, etc.

    Who knows though...with the new wave of teachers that may be different now. A lot of my teachers were older and had been doing it for years.

    Then again I know a lot of people that I went to school with and became teachers because of all that. So something positive must have really rubbed off.
  8. wardenx Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 23, 2003
    star 3
    I'm not saything that the teachers are pushing the agendas, Princess. Just that the liberal organizations within our government only allow certain information to be taught and keep the teacher's hands tied for the most part. I believe in teachers and that most of them are good people trying to make a difference in a broken system. Kind of like our police, for example.

    EDIT: As an example of what I mean, the schools as an institution push a conformist attitude in the children instead of fostering an environment where kids learn to think for themselves and to ask questions.
  9. PtrsonsZOO Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 30, 2001
    star 7
    But the conservative agenda is the exact same thing... They are insinuating themselves into the classrooms, and the bedrooms. It's just that they have a different curriculum in mind... And they hide under the banner of "Family Values." :p

    The best bumper sticker I ever owned (and need to get another one :( ) is an answer to one of those lovely groups: Focus on Your Own Damn Family :D
  10. wardenx Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 23, 2003
    star 3
    I agree whole-heartedly, ZOO I'm not for the conservative agenda, either. I just think it's currently the lesser of the two evils. Not that it's good. Just not as bad. Or perhaps, a different sort of bad. LOL I dont want them telling me how to raise a child either. It all just seems to be looking more and more like an Orwellian State every year that passes.
  11. Princess_Skywalker_ Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Nov 5, 2002
    star 4
    As an example of what I mean, the schools as an institution push a conformist attitude in the children instead of fostering an environment where kids learn to think for themselves and to ask questions.

    Well at my schools it wasn't like that. All my regular teachers always encouraged free thinking, plus we had other programs.
    I don't know if anyone else had these, but in grade school my best friend and I were in C.L.U.E. Creative Learning in a Unique Enviornment. It was for students at the top of their class, and you had to take this test to get in. It wasn't a knowledge test, but a creativity test. Basically we did all sorts of creative projects and discussed things, played games, etc. It was once a week I believe.

    Then in jr high it was T.A.G. Talented and Gifted. Which was not as fun. Basically it was just an advanced class, ie 8th grade was science, so it was advanced science. 7th grade was fun because we had a mock M.U.N. and kids from all the different jr highs attended. 9th was ok because it was English and I really enjoyed getting more into Shakespeare, Dickens, etc.

    In high school they didn't have a program basically because there were so many advanced classes you could take already, and I usually was in all of them. I really do think teachers pushed the envelope so to speak in them because when I found out what the "regular" classes were learning, I was shocked. It seemed like we were grade levels ahead of them.

    I always felt challenged and pushed in school. Maybe it was just the school system in Oregon, I dunno.
  12. wardenx Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 23, 2003
    star 3
    That's the problem, Princess. Schools that do that are wonderful and rare. But they are also being pounded by the liberal programs that say that those types of classes and activities give other children inferiority complexes and other such nonsense and want a smooth, uniform education where such over-achievers are weeded out and made to learn only what the others are learning. I don't mean to say it will pass, but it is passing in some places in CA and NY. Like the school for gays in NY. What's next? A school for chubby kids?
  13. Princess_Skywalker_ Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Nov 5, 2002
    star 4
    Well I do feel for any kids that feel singled out because they are different. Should there be a seperate school for them? I dunno. I feel sad they need one. Why kids are so mean and torture each other I'll never know.

    But as for encouraging kids to think freely...

    Being the lazy brat that I am, I was ALWAYS looking for projects I could do instead of REAL school work :p Once we got a video camera in 7th grade I was a wanna be Spielberg. So pretty much anytime I could talk a teacher into it, I used a video as my project. It always ended up being a lot more work than I planned, but since I enjoyed it, it wasn't that bad. I just crack up when I see some of the crap I came up with back then. But my teachers always encourage me to be creative. For that, I am thankful. :D
  14. wardenx Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 23, 2003
    star 3
    very cool, Princess. I wish more teachers and schools were like that.

    EDIT: Also, there shoul sbsolutely NOT be a separate school for kids who just don't feel like they belong or whatever. The fact is they DO belong and they'll have to learn to live with the fact in order to function in society. Part of the task of schools is to help children with their social skills and learning to deal with issues life hands you. If that means getting picked on by other kids well, that happens in adult life, too. They have to get over it and learn to make their lives what they want. :D
  15. Princess_Skywalker_ Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Nov 5, 2002
    star 4
    About not separating kids, well I do agree to an extent, BUT...
    kids should not be allowed to be as vicious and horrible as they can be to other students. Terrible degrading behavior and violence against kids should NOT be tolerated. Look what happens when adults let things like that happen. Kids can only take so much and we don't need any more school shootings.
  16. jada_marnew Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 22, 2003
    star 5
    When I said a village, I didn't mean drag in the local witch doctor, etc. I meant it takes more than a parent or two to create a well rounded child.

    As for teachers and their agendas, don't get me started. That is one of the reasons I'll starve before my child goes to public school. (Like starving would hurt me.) I've been around the public school because wee one had a speech problem. That department was great but I used to tutor kids from the school and the crap they were being told was ridiculous! (then again, I am conservative so . . . )

    I choose to have my daughter in the preschool of my choice. And there was only one year she was in 5 days a week. Children need to be allowed to be children. Fully understand that many parents have to work outside the home but I'll fight to the hilt to keep it from becoming some mandatory compulsion to have a kid in preschool if the parents choose to keep them home. What's next? Reading by age 3?
  17. Princess_Skywalker_ Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Nov 5, 2002
    star 4
    ahm I was reading at age 3. My mom treated me like a mini adult, not a kid. Which in some ways was cool because it pushed me farther academically, but if I had the choice, I wouldn't do that to my kids.

    When I first arrived in Oregon, the kindergarten students didn't have a reading program! :eek: That was first grade....So since I could read, my teacher used me as a model and set up the program from then on. To get in going she had to have school officials observing class with me doing a demonstration in front of everyone. But being the ham I ALWAYS have been.... I didn't mind :p ;)
  18. jada_marnew Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 22, 2003
    star 5
    Sorry, I'll qualify that, Princess.

    Mandatory reading by age 3.

    Kids their at different paces. Forcing a level on them isn't realistic. Here in AZ we have the AIMS test. There has been a lot of grief over it because it was implemented without letting the system catch up to the requirements (a person needs to be able to preform pre-algerbra and have a certain reading/english level in order to graduate high school).

    This, I am all for. I think education in Arizona is a total joke. What wasthe worst public school in CT is the best public school in AZ.

    But, I don't think that turning children into automatons that can just spit out information is productive. Children learn by doing not just sitting around memorizing. Let em memorize once they get into school.
  19. wardenx Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 23, 2003
    star 3
    Good points, both of you. And I agree. You'll have to excuse me if I get pointed sometimes but I just like to make sure that the verbage says what it's intended to say. Miscommunications happen all the time because of improper word usage or meaning. So, bear with what appears to be an anal propensity for specifics. ;) It's all in the details, IMHO.

    I agree, BTW, with both of you, for what it's worth.
  20. PtrsonsZOO Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 30, 2001
    star 7
    Conservative Education Goals:
    • No art, music or intense humanities programs.

    • HS Level Special Education should be replaced w/ VoTech Programs.

    • All Mainstreaming should be stopped.

    • No Sex Ed

    • Teaching both Creationism and Evolutionary Theory

    • Mandatory Prayer in Schools

    • Revisionist History Practices - "Civil Rights Movement was not met with violence"


    Liberal Education Goals:
    • Fine Arts & Humanities at all levels

    • Increased funding for Special Education Programs and Indentification

    • Expanding the Mainstreaming Program to include students not able to work at level w/ abled students

    • Increased dependence on the PC movement's fundmentals

    • Revisionist History Practices - "No warfare in N. American until the Europeans arrived"


    They are both equally evil in my eyes... And yes, I know of which I speak... I am in the Education Program and will soon become a HS teacher. Let's leave education to the educators and get the politics the hell out of there :mad:
  21. wardenx Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 23, 2003
    star 3
    ZOO Excellent info. Thanks. I think your source (if you derrived this from a particular source) is a bit simplistic in its estimate of the propositions of the respective parties but still gives good, basic ideas of what they are trying to accomplish. And I agree with you, I think they're both evil to the core and I'd rather that the educators and parents had the final say in what is taught in the schools. Of course, I qualify that with the hope that there would be a variety of schools were a parent could choose which school they wish their child to attend. Such as a more stringent academic school with less emphasis on arts and humanities, if that's what a parent wants for their child. Or a school that is dedicated to the furthering of the artistic nature in humans and a parent wants their child to go there. I just believe in choice and freedoms, for both the schools and the parents. And for students, should they become old enough and their parents open enough to allow them the choice of the type of school they wish to attnend.
  22. PtrsonsZOO Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 30, 2001
    star 7
    Source - 2 Years of Education Classes/Lectures :p So, it's a boiled down list of items ;)
  23. wardenx Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 23, 2003
    star 3
    It's good to have an inside sourse. But I think most of the teachers have a skewed perspective because they have had to deal with the broken system for so long that they can't see the forest for the trees, so to speak. Their opinion is significant, for sure. But few can separate their opinion from facts, especially when it comes to education reform. To close to the problem to see it clearly. Not that I'm saying you are, ZOO. That's not for me to say. Just that that has been my experience with most educators. Like most people in general, they aren't open to actual, real world changes that are currently workable. It's the pie in the sky mentality.

    Granted, my own desire for the education system is currently a pipe dream, but I'm aware of the necessity to compromise with the system we've got. Not happy with having to do so, but it's better the enemy I know than the one I don't.
  24. Lord_Reaper Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 8, 2002
    star 3
    -slightly opinionated view of the school systems from a first hand experience-

    Sorry Warden, I tried to make this as polite as possible.. if there are any problems I can edit further.





    The education system is so backwards that I'm suprised 90% of our nation doesn't work in factories. That is what they teach us to do. Homework is a system setup to teach us how to do the same menial tasks day after day and less complaining as we get more used to doing it. YAY, ROBOT CHILDREN. That is not to mention how a teacher's point of view or expectations of a child don't disrupt that childs' ability to learn.
    Previous Teacher: Oh, that student is just rotten...
    New Teacher: Really?

    Now the kid is treated like ass all year because of some comment.. Or worse still if the teacher thinks you are going to be a dumb student.... it's easily shown that you become one.
    In addition, what do kids/teens learn about money? What do they learn about investing, or buying a house? What do they learn about mortgages, banks, how to do your taxes, interest rates? What do they learn about relationships, marriage, having children, rasing them properly? What do they learn about retirement and Estate Planning, Death Taxes, probate taxes? DO THEY EVEN LEARN HOW TO BALANCE THEIR CHECKBOOK!??

    If we want to make ourselves better, we have to look at what we consume. Not just food and beverages, but what we feed our minds as well. Kids no nothing of spirituality, because they're taught dogma. Yet, they can remain innocent for a while...

    I think we should reform the system is all.
  25. jada_marnew Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 22, 2003
    star 5
    Reaper, some good points.

    Just as a distraction from the heaviness we've put in today, when I was in high school I was in some class where I had to "have a child" the child was an egg. It was not hard boiled. I had to keep it with me 24 hours a day, keep a journal of how I "fed" it, "bathed", etc. Well, on the third day i was in school, I left the egg on my desk IN ITS COMFY BOX with a scarf over it. Some MORON came over, yanked the scarf off knocking the box over and poof! the egg splatted on the floor. So I failed my assingment because I didn't keep my egg alive. I KILLED MY EGG!!!!

    I think that was when I decided NOT to have children (obvious that decision was reversed since I do now have a child.)

    I also STiLL can't balance a check book.
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.