Phx The War Room: Open Forum

Discussion in 'SouthWest Region Discussion' started by wardenx, Jul 9, 2003.

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  1. wardenx Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 23, 2003
    star 3
    Truth is, I'd have prefered to get them alive and yanked whatever information we could out of them. But dead is good, too. Not as good, but good. Then, when we got the information, then we kill them. If it takes a trial, then so be it. But the end result would be the same. They were wicked men and deserved to die. There is a special place in Hell waiting for them.

    Saddam is next...
  2. PtrsonsZOO Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 30, 2001
    star 7
    If you place a distinction between the Creator from the Created, you separate the one from the other. That's not omnipresent. God has to be bigger than what most religions say He is. ALL present, ALL powerful and ALL knowing. That means, right here, right now, God is you and me and this computer and the stars and the planets and the space in between. Just like our little minds can't fathom the concepts of eternity or infinity, so is God outside our ability to understand. We can only KNOW our relationship with God and grow therein.

    wardenx I, personally, would like to thank you for this enlightened and educated position on the topic of faith. Not religion, because we both seem to agree that particular notion is our biggest stopping block.

    On a similar note, have you ever read Billions and Billions: Thoughts on Life and Death at the Brink of the Millennium by Carl Sagan? It deals with some of those notions that are too large in scope to quantify and the people who are struggling to do so anyway. For a scientest, he was a very spiritual man... Gives me a little hope for the future ;)
  3. wardenx Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 23, 2003
    star 3
    Hey, ZOO Haven't read that book by Sagan. I've read Cosmos, but that's about it. You're right, though. He had some wonderful notions of the universe. I've read other scientists who have speculated about the nature of the relationship between the universe and God. In fact, Einstein was quite the spiritualist himself. He was ever in search of the Unified Field Theory, which was pretty much God's plan in theory. He made many references to the ineffable nature of the universe. Very elucidating and thought-provoking.

  4. PtrsonsZOO Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 30, 2001
    star 7
  5. wardenx Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 23, 2003
    star 3
    Oh yeah!! I remember seeing that one and wanting to read it. That good, huh? I guess I'll have to pick it up. Thanks.

    Science, in it's purest intent, has always been a facination with me. I love to explore and learn. Science has always been a great vehicle for me to ask questions and be able to find some sort of answers (though never complete ones, of course, which is half the fun of science).

    But I get a little uneasy with some of the things we're discovering these days. The things we can do with genetics and biological agents. Scares me sometimes. Science is good, but the people who use it aren't always so.
  6. PtrsonsZOO Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 30, 2001
    star 7
    I think it has more to do w/ the people that finance it [face_plain]
  7. wardenx Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 23, 2003
    star 3
    Amen. The Golden Rule: Those with the gold make the rules. Sad but true.

    I was reading a document that said how I think it was Eisenhower or Truman who authorized the testing of bioweapons on our own people in cities right here in the US. I don't know if they actually used the bioweapons or just testing the delivery method, but they used something that would infect a large number of people wo that they could do the study to find out how effective the delivery metrhod was. I don't know if it was influenza that they spread or something else, but it's the idea that they used our own citizens as test subjects without asking anyone. It was a secret until the early 90's when Clinton released a bunch of sealed documents from under the National Security blanket.

    That was done back in the middle of the last century or earlier (I'd have to get the doccument again to be sure). Just makes me wonder what else they've done without telling us. God bless science.
  8. wardenx Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 23, 2003
    star 3
    HOLY COW!!! Stinkin' TRIPLE POSTS!!
  9. wardenx Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 23, 2003
    star 3
  10. EmprsHandMick Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Dec 7, 2001
    star 4
    Well I believe I'm going to bow out of the conversation in this thread before I say something to someone that Void will have to edit. BUt I restate the that I am particularly offended when people insinuate that those of us who believe in a religion are ignorant, weakwilled fools. I would also comment that scientists are no more or less evil than anyone else in the world. I think that a part of the issue is that few people understand what we work with and so are afraid of it.
  11. Princess_Skywalker_ Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Nov 5, 2002
    star 4
    I'd like to say this...I may not believe in a "religion" anymore, and sometimes I don't know if I still believe in any "God".

    But I DON'T think anyone who DOES believe in religion, God, etc. is wrong, a moron, etc.

    As a matter of fact one of my best friends is a Sunday church going girl. She isn't sleeping with anyone again until marriage. She takes religion seriously. Etc. The thing I LOVE about her is that she knows AND understands my viewpoints. She doesn't agree with them obviously because she IS religious and am I not. BUT she never ever treats me different, never pressures me about anything, and she respects me regardless.

    I am open to anyone believing in what they do. The only thing I DON'T like about SOME, NOT ALL, people that believe in an organized religion, is the idea that because I or others don't agree with them, we are wrong and going to hell. I think it's ok to disagree, but when you start treating people differently because of that, then it crosses a line. Differing opinions do not make it ok to disrespect people.

    If more people had open minds, the world would be so much more peaceful. I grew up in a very conservative and oppressive household. It's taken me a long time to be able to be more open minded, to finally just believe what I want, be who I want. When I start thinking negative thoughts about someone because they are doing something I would never do, don't agree with, etc., I try and remember where I came from and what I DON'T EVER want to be like.

    So don't leave the war room MICK!! Scientists are groovy! :p WHO TOLD YOU THEY WEREN'T?!?! ;)

    WARDENX I am officially changing this room! It's the "love" room. Make love not war! And no, I'm not a "damn dirty hippie" :p
    j/k
  12. Master_R0nin Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Oct 18, 2002
    star 2
    Make love not war! And no, I'm not a "damn dirty hippie"

    Say it however you want, but you made us lose the war in NAM! ;)
  13. Princess_Skywalker_ Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Nov 5, 2002
    star 4
    Say it however you want, but you made us lose the war in NAM!

    Well it WAS a joke...and really, if you think a ONE year old made you lose the war, then, well, I can't help you there. :p

    (I'm not even going INTO the politics of the war)...What I was trying to do, unsuccessfully was make the room a little happier and less, ahm, moody...oh well. 0 for 2 tonight apparently...anyone need me to volunteer to make it 3? :p Yeah, didn't think so.
  14. jada_marnew Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 22, 2003
    star 5
    Mick,

    I think your dedication to your beliefs is commendable. I'm not sure about the science part and what was said, intended, etc. but scientist are necessary and needed in our society, civilization.

    Keep believing and doing what you do because I KNOW we need a person who does your kind of work to keep us safe.
  15. wardenx Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 23, 2003
    star 3
    For the record, I think both religion and science are wonderful tools for the betterment of the human race. But, like all tools, are only as good as they are used. I respect and encourage the furthering of religion and science. If anyone (you too, Mick) has a belief or opinion they wish to share here, there will be no condemnation. Please, feel free to do so at any time. It is an open forum and we are, after all, friends here.

    On another note, did anyone see the pictures of Saddam's sons, Uday and Qusay, this morning?

    The question posed now is, "Should we have posted the pictures for the world to see and why?"
  16. PtrsonsZOO Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 30, 2001
    star 7
    I would love to debate today... But I'm afraid it might get ugly... TOOOOOO MUCH DRAMA :p :mad:
  17. wardenx Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 23, 2003
    star 3
    LOL Mmmm... WardenX like ugly. Ugly good. [face_devil] Bring it on, ZOO ;)
  18. Idiots Array Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 3, 2000
    star 5
    There have been other pictures released of people killed in the war, both Iraqi and American. I don't see why these are any different.
  19. Princess_Skywalker_ Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Nov 5, 2002
    star 4
    LOL Mmmm... WardenX like ugly. Ugly good. Bring it on, ZOO

    tsk. tsk. you are a bad boy
  20. wardenx Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 23, 2003
    star 3
    We all have our crosses to bear, Princess. ;) Being a bad boy is mine. [face_devil] It's a curse but I live with it.

    IA: Agreed. I just wonder at the veracity of the evidence. I'd like to believe that they are in fact dead, but the pictures are inconclusive to me. But I'll believe the dental evidence for now. But credibility has been pushed to the limits on some issues with intelligence lately. So, let's hope it's true and that the Iraqi people believe it as well. To me, it's all about them and helping to restore their government and peace to the people and stabilizing the nations in the Middle East.
  21. Princess_Skywalker_ Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Nov 5, 2002
    star 4
  22. wardenx Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 23, 2003
    star 3
    check this out

    Is this more proof of the megacorporations taking over? It's all about the money. Once again we see the Golden Rule in action.
  23. wardenx Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 23, 2003
    star 3
    OK, no takers on that last one. How about the subject of Saudi Arabia and the inplicit oil trade despite the UN sanctions against Iraqi oil sales?

    How about the Israeli air strikes against Palestinian refugee camps that take place after Palestinian suicide bombings? Isreali attack helicopters would lift off immediately after these strikes and supposedly open fire on refugee camps in the Gaza strip. Havne't been able to find the article that reported it again, but it's there. Don't know what the Isreali reasoning for it was or what the official excuse that was given.
  24. jada_marnew Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Feb 22, 2003
    star 5
    The Four Horsemen, very interesting. I think Corporate America is getting too big for its britches (oh, don't spell that without an r). For the love of pete, why on earth are we having to pay beaucoup dinaro for TV? I'm sick and tired of it. I hardly watch TV anymore. I say ban the 4 horseman, put the limits back on. Free enterprise is one thing but this is just out of control. . . kind of like MicroSith?

    I don't even have a choice of what cable company I can go with. And if they raise the price, who is there to say, hey! enough already. I've even heard** that "they" want to start bundling utlities so that you just get one mega bill a month. Where's the accountability on that one? How do you know that Company X actually got the information from Company Y and Z and that it's all getting paid? And won't it cost you more for this consolidated billing?

    It does all come down to money. Them wanting ours.




    **um (hangs head in shame) I did a stint as a telephone research interviewer at a very low point in my life. THANK GOD FOR THE DO NOT CALL LIST!!!!!
  25. wardenx Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Apr 23, 2003
    star 3
    Good point, Jada. Personally, I say return to a Free Market society. Let competition reign! Then, if you don't like the prices or practices of any business you have the ultimate option of simply saying, "I'm not going to do business with them." Call me a Libertarian, but I think it works. Do away with big government and let businesses have at it. Give me choices and freedom to dictate those choices and I'll be happy.
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