Senate The Weekly Discussion of Military Technology

Discussion in 'Community' started by Mr44, Nov 27, 2003.

  1. Lord Vivec Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Apr 17, 2006
    star 7
    Well then, I suggest we accept the military build up. Pakistan has a center right government, and it's likely the BJP, a hindu nationalist party, looks to be the likely winner in India's upcoming election.

    I guess this topic is better suited for the Asian politics thread.
  2. Ender Sai Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 18, 2001
    star 9
  3. Mr44 VIP

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2002
    star 6
    ES-regarding the Ponce's name...Maybe its the perfect ironic name for the world's first death ray equipped naval ship? Of course, I guess it depends on which countries represents the prostitute part of the equation.

    At any rate, I expect the snickering to be kept to a minimum when it pulls into port at the newly expanded US military facilities in Darwin.
  4. Ender Sai Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 18, 2001
    star 9


    Zzzzzzap. Zzzzzzzzzzzzap.
  5. Mr44 VIP

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2002
    star 6
    So, the UK Ministry of Defence confirmed that the government is finalizing procurement of the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter B version. The UK is still budgeting for 138 aircraft, although the final number will move up or down depending on final cost of the program. The B version of the fighter is the "short takeoff and vertical landing" variant, which the UK will exclusively fly. The STOVL version has a shorter overall range and has to be refueled more frequently, but it can land in more types of runways.

    the first two British units getting the F-35B are the
    617 RAF squadron, the historic "Dam Busters" from WWII
    809 Naval air squadron, nicknamed the "Immortals."

    What is also interesting is that for the first time in many, many years, the UK is fielding serious aircraft carriers. The 2 "Queen Elizabeth-class" carriers won't be ready until 2018 (with full operation a couple of years later) but Britain will be able to sail to where the sun never sets again. The aircraft carriers aren't as large as the US's super-carriers (101,000 tonnes vs 70,000 tonnes) but they are the largest ships that the UK has ever built, and cost 3 Billion pounds each.

    Argentina better not flare anything up in the Falklands Islands again.....
  6. Ender Sai Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 18, 2001
    star 9
    I suppose, given the UK's role as a support army in NATO and other multinational conflicts, that this makes a great deal of sense.
  7. I Are The Internets Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 20, 2012
    star 7
    Wasn't there talk a while back about a new type of technology for uniforms where camouflage techniques are built into the suit, so one can blend into the background easily? I can't really word that any better.
  8. Mr44 VIP

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2002
    star 6
    ES- That's true. Due to the Royal Navy's requirements under the Defence Review, the UK is dependent on the US for a great deal of support capabilities. While it's unlikely that the UK would conduct an operation on its own, it can least hold its own with joint missions, and could probably organize a solo operation of a smaller nature.

    Internets- Yes, it's called "Hyper stealth," "Quantom Stealth," or the more official "Thermoptic” camouflage" depending on the company and the agency sponsoring the research. The actual light bending technology is a reality and actually works:

    [IMG]

    That's an actual test assistant wearing traditional camo pants and holding a sheet of the new stuff.

    The problem is that the "fabric" can't currently be manipulated/sewn/cut, etc.. into anything beyond a continuous sheet because the fiber optics can't be broken. So it can't be made into uniforms, and it might be able to be mounted on large areas on vehicles like tanks, etc...but you wouldn't be able to cover the hatches or tracks, or anything that moves and/or opens. A cloak or blanket is the extent.
  9. Ender Sai Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 18, 2001
    star 9
  10. Mr44 VIP

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2002
    star 6
    I hope his recovery goes well. It is the final season, so I guess the delay is bittersweet, but that sucks! Good interview, that's why I like Sullivan Stapleton.

    For an additional story, it seems like the UK eh, kind of conned France out of 200+ million Euros....

    France's sole aircraft carrier, the Charles de Gaulle, is suffering from age, and its nuclear reactor is becoming increasingly unreliable. (which is a rather scary thought in its own right) As a result, France wanted to piggyback off of the British Royal Navy's new aircraft carrier program. The UK MOD charged France a 112 million Euro "study fee" to even participate in the development. And then the UK MOD billed France an additional 102 million Euros for research and development costs, for a total of 214 million Euros. The aircraft carrier program turned out to be the 2 new "Queen Elizabeth-class" carriers that the Royal Navy is currently producing. However, all the features-like short take off decks were all suited for the UK, and were not compatible with French capabilities. As such, France was unable to use anything and had to pull out of the program with no aircraft carrier in sight.

    I wouldn't imagine that the UK would intentionally con France out of the money, but I don't know if the French laisons just went along with whatever the Royal Navy said, or it was just a case of no oversight at all. It's the kind of story that can't be made up though. Of course, I'd imagine that France will try and recoup its money, so I'd imagine this is going to be dragged out for years in the EU.
  11. Mr44 VIP

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2002
    star 6
    So, Norway of all places is going on a bit of a recent buying spree.

    1)The Royal Norwegian Air Force has sent an letter of intent to purchase new Advanced Medium Range Air-to-Air Missiles (AMRAAMs) from Raytheon for $80 million. The Norwegian Air Force currently uses an older model of the missile (which it is going to keep) and is requesting the most advanced export version to augment its existing stock. Since the AMRAAM is a "export restricted item" the US government has to approve the deal, which it is expected to do.

    2)Norway has also just began fielding its newest armored infantry fighting vehicle from BAE Systems-the upgraded CV90- worth about $750 million:

    [IMG]

    So that's about $830 million dollars that Norway is dropping on defense upgrades.....And for a bit of Trivia, the modern Royal Norwegian Ministry of Defense was established in 1814, making this year its 200th birthday.
  12. Mr44 VIP

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2002
    star 6
    In a both extremely stupid, if not slightly ingenious move, the infamous Al-Quds Brigade of the Palestine Islamic Jihad has started to build a network of underground multiple launch rocket launchers inside of Gaza:

    [IMG]

    Basically, the launcher sits on a moveable platform and can be lowered under the ground and closed off with the steel doors. In typical fashion, the Al-Quds Brigade issued a statement in which they declared they fired 130(!) rockets into Israel using the system. The Al-Quds Brigade then issued a warning to Israel that it now has the capability to fire intense rocket barrages with little warning. Israel indicated that the figure was closer to between 40-70 rockets, of which only 5 landed in populated areas. But no matter who is correct, this is precisely the type of practice which is so damning to the various Palestinian groups.

    1) depending on where the actual network is built, it gives the IDF the justification to seek out and destroy these launchers where ever they are. I'd bet bottom dollar that the Islamic Jihad installs these near schools and playgrounds and such, and when the IDF destroys them, the victims are going to be the people around them.

    2)With modern technology-fire finder detectors, counter-battery artillery radars, infrared sensors, these launchers aren't going to remain hidden. All it means is that Israel will purchase a bunch of new bunker buster bombs from the US and the Islmaic Jihad will be back to square one. Again, the only real losers are those people inside of Gaza itself.
    Sarge likes this.
  13. Mr44 VIP

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2002
    star 6
    So, the previously mentioned M113 is in play again. Who would have thought that a 60 year old vehicle would be the hottest military vehicle exchanged this year?

    But anyway, since the government of Greece is dirt broke, the US DOD is donating almost 500 M113's to the Greek military. All Greece had to do is come up with the transport costs which total 5 million dollars out of the total contract of 40-50 million. The interesting thing is that the package includes all variants of the vehicle, including armored personnel carriers, command vehicles, Improved TOW launcher carriers, 107mm mortar carriers, and smoke-generating vehicles. It looks like Greece will be using the M113 for many years to come.

    Not related, but the Mexican Army just signed a contract worth 152 million dollars to buy 1,000 new Humvees, including the up-armored version, to combat the ever growing drug cartel violence inside of Mexico.
  14. Alpha-Red Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 25, 2004
    star 5
    If Iron Dome is working as well as it is, and considering that the rockets fired by Hamas are so inaccurate that most of them don't hit anything in the first place...can't Israel just sit back and play defense rather than bombing the rocket sites?
  15. Sarge Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 4, 1998
    star 4
    If you and your family were in Israel, would you be content to sit around and trust to Iron Dome and Hamas inaccuracy? I wouldn't.
  16. Alpha-Red Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 25, 2004
    star 5
    Well if you look at the statistics for how few people are actually killed by rocket attacks...then yeah. Treating the rockets as a threat is probably akin to looking at the loss of Flight MH370 and being scared of flying when in fact the numbers show that air travel is very, very, very safe.
  17. Sarge Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 4, 1998
    star 4
    I was based in places where insurgents fired mortars and rockets at us. They weren't accurate either. That doesn't mean you ignore them while they shoot at you, which would be as stupid as walking through a thunderstorm and trusting the odds that you won't get hit by lightning.
  18. Mr44 VIP

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2002
    star 6
    Yeah, I think at a basic level, no country would tolerate such behavior. I mean, imagine if for some reason Cuba started launching unguided ballistic missiles at the coast of Florida. Even if the missiles didn't really hit anything, Cuba would probably be reduced to a smoldering parking lot. Now, groups like the Islamic Jihad are non-state actors, and there are different degrees of response. But I can't think of any country from Switzerland to Canada to France that would outright ignore such behavior.
    Sarge likes this.
  19. Mr44 VIP

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2002
    star 6
    So, an interesting update out of Syria this week. Video footage was obtained that shows the anti-government group Harakat Hazm firing M220-series TOW anti-tank weapon systems. Three videos total were released by members of Harakat Hazm from around April 5th. Two of the videos show TOWs being fired at government forces near the town of Hish. The third video is of the launching system in the back of an insurgent "technical" pick-up truck.

    The TOW is a pretty heavy system compared to lighter, carried anti-tank rockets, but the TOW has a much greater range and effect.

    Now, the TOW missile is a restricted item, which means that either the US is supplying them to insurgent groups within Syria via clandestine sources, or a "neutral third state" is delivering them after importing them from the US. Turkey 1)uses the TOW and 2) supports the Syrian opposition and would be the likely choice. Saudi Arabia, UAE, Kuwait, and Jordan also use the TOW. Qatar and the UAE also unofficially back the Syrian rebels, but they both use anti-tank missiles from the EU. (HOT from Germany and MILAN from Italy respectively), rather than TOW.

    The US has switched to wireless systems for a while now, with the US Marines probably having the most TOW's still in inventory. US TOW's have an upgrade program to make them wireless. Here's a screen shot from one of the first videos, which clearly show the guidance wire, so the TOW's being used by the rebels are not the latest version:

    [IMG]
  20. Mr44 VIP

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2002
    star 6
    So, interesting news out of Russia this week.

    The production of Russian small arms corporation Kalashnikov is up 230% during the 1st quarter of this year. Kalashnikov's Q1 output already equals 41% of its entire 2013 production of small arms. Over the full year, Kalashnikov expects production to jump 27%.

    It's interesting because I don't think Russia/Kalashnikov has ever purposefully announced its production rates before. What Kalashnikov didn't announce was the breakdown of the types of weapons it has increased, or where they are going. But what is obvious is that this has to be related to the current situation in the Ukraine, and represents another escalation in the standoff.

    The problem for Kalashikov was that the original company went bankrupt in 2012, and a new company was forced reorganized with the blessing of the Russian government. So despite increasing output, Kalashnikov will not be able to dump weapons in the Ukraine if there are no real "customers," especially with the new rounds of sanctions being levied against Russia. But it may not matter if every pro-Russian man, woman and child in Ukraine has an AK74.
  21. Mr44 VIP

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2002
    star 6
    So, returning to Pakistan, the Pakistani military just took delivery of the first batch of Lockheed Martin F-16's from Jordan. The initial delivery was 5 F-16's out of a total order of 13, which are all being transferred from the Jordanian air force. Pakistan has a fleet of 76 F-16's.

    Pakistan has wanted more F-16's for a while now, but has been rather....testy....over the US administration's use of armed drones within Pakistan. Since this latest batch was Jordanian surplus, they're not the latest model of the fighter, but Pakistan has budgeted extra money for "undetermined" upgrades.

    Still, it's an interesting purchase for Pakistan. The Indian air force uses Russian MiG-21 and MiG-29 fighters.
  22. Mr44 VIP

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2002
    star 6
    So, the first of 36 F-16's that are being sold to the Iraqi air force are being finished up at Lockheed Martin's manufacturing plant in Texas. The F-16's are part of a deal to increase Iraq's top air superiority capability. What's interesting is that besides air to air equipment, the F-16's that are being sold look tailored made to deal with missions against Iran, because a large portion of the weapon systems are precision ground attack. (Unless Iraq want to start attacking Kurds again..) Each Iraqi F-16 will have a mixture of the following:

    M61 20 mm Vulcan gatling gun
    Sidewinder air-to-air missiles, or Sparrow medium-range missiles, or Maverick air-to-surface missiles
    500 lb Paveway II laser-guided bombs, 2,000 lb Paveway II laser-guided bombs, 2,000 lb Paveway III laser-guided bombs, or 2000 lb and or 500 lb general-purpose bombs.

    There was some concern of potential misuse by the Iraqi forces, so sensitive equipment was depowered a bit. The radar is an older planar type which is well within the jamming capabilities of NATO jammers, and which stealth can easily defeat. And the sidewinder and Sparrow missiles are of an older type. Still, the F-16 represents leaps and bounds above the MiG's the Iraqis used to have.


    [IMG]

    What stands out about that image is the Iraqi flag on the tail section.
  23. I Are The Internets Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Nov 20, 2012
    star 7
    I like the design. Very sleek, especially the wing sections.
  24. Sarge Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 4, 1998
    star 4
    Any idea what kind of equipment is installed in that spine running along the top of the fuselage? Those yellow squares look like chaff/flares, but they only take a little of the available space.
  25. Mr44 VIP

    Member Since:
    May 21, 2002
    star 6
    The entire spine is the integrated countermeasure pod, which includes the detector, the jammer, and the transmitter. Part of that is the flare/chaff system. But I don't know if the chaff or the flares specifically come out of the sides or the back. I would guess the flares come out of the yellow areas and the chaff comes out of the back.

    Technically, the Iraqi F-16's use Raytheon's Advanced Countermeasures Electronic System or "ACES." Although the image is small, the distinct spine is obvious:

    [IMG]