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The whole "I am your father" thing is ruined

Discussion in 'Classic Trilogy' started by MaskedSuperstar, Nov 6, 2003.

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  1. MaskedSuperstar

    MaskedSuperstar Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    Jun 29, 2003
    There's no possible way that this surprise could be retained for future generations that watch them in order, 1-6.
    Even if EIII never mentions the babies by name, everyone's gonna know who Luke is, because of the Lars' and the homestead.
     
  2. ST-TPM-ASF-TNE

    ST-TPM-ASF-TNE Moderator Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 27, 2001
    Yes, it is ruined for future generations, but GL is not concerned about that. You can't expect him to center an entire movie series around a single moment.

    Besides, as far as I'm concerned, the suprise of Anakin turning to the darkside will be ten times more powerful and surprising than the "I am your father moment".
     
  3. AdamBertocci

    AdamBertocci Manager Emeritus star 7 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Feb 3, 2002
    (1) If Lucas feels like it he can cover the surprise. Although at this point it doesn't seem like he wants to.

    (2) It may be that people encourage future generations 456123.

    (3) It may also be that "I am your father" is so freakin' famous now that everybody knows and that it's not a surprise no matter what.



    Rick McCallum loves you!
     
  4. drtomthecat

    drtomthecat Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    Nov 5, 2003
    maybe he dose
     
  5. The_JediMaster

    The_JediMaster Jedi Youngling star 2

    Registered:
    Aug 15, 2002
    I agree, but when people find out that Palpatine is Darth Sideous, that will be the big surprise for them.

    It should become a practice that any Star Wars newcommer should watch the saga in the order it was meant to be seen: the OT, then the PT. However, it is such common knowledge to most people that it is ruined before they see the movie anyway.
     
  6. The_JediMaster

    The_JediMaster Jedi Youngling star 2

    Registered:
    Aug 15, 2002
    Actually it's not completley ruined. You can still think "Wow, he actually told him!!"
     
  7. Earthling

    Earthling Jedi Master

    Registered:
    Jun 15, 2002
    Yes, and the "I am your father" moment between Vader and Luke in ESB will just be ridiculous after two similar moments in Ep3: the "I am your father" from the Emperor to Vader and the "I am your creator" from Vader to Threepio . ;-)

    Edit: I forgot about the "NOOOOOOOOO!!! We are your father" from the midichlorians. ;-)
     
  8. TwiLekJedi

    TwiLekJedi Pretty Ex-Mod star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 14, 2001
    maybe, just maybe, Lucas somehow manages to let it look like Anakin dies after falling to the dark side and then there is just Vader. If that succeeds (which, I must admit, is pretty hard to imagine) then people still would only know that Luke is Anakin's (and Padme's, but she matters not) son, but not that Anakin is actually Vader.

    Nah, scratch that, I agree, it's ruined when watched 1-6. Anakin gets the freaking Imperial March (aka Darth Vader's Theme) in AotC! There is no way to keep the surprise that Vader is Luke's father. What a shame.
     
  9. Earthling

    Earthling Jedi Master

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    Jun 15, 2002
    I guess that the PT is to some extent created for us who have seen the OT.

    Maybe Lucasfilm can edit the movies afterwards so that you don't get who Vader is?
     
  10. DarthLassic007

    DarthLassic007 Jedi Master star 6

    Registered:
    Nov 25, 2002
    Leia being Luke's twin sister can still be a surprise in ROTJ. Lucas won't mention baby Leia's name in Episode III.
    The only thing is that people who never watched the OT before will probably be saying all through ANH, TESB, and most of ROTJ, "Weren't there two children that were born in Episode III? What happened to Luke's sibling?"
     
  11. 32Flavors

    32Flavors Jedi Youngling

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    Sep 27, 2003
    The power of the "I am your father" statement will remain, but in a different form. With the completion of the PT, rather than a revelation to the viewer, its power will remain in the impact it has on Luke.

    Actually, for me, a lot of its power has always been in the implications of the revelation to Luke, rather than the simple statement. Its the ramification, not the revelation ;)
     
  12. Errant_Venture

    Errant_Venture Manager Emeritus star 6 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Feb 21, 2002
    I can't imagine the "I am your father line" surprising anyone in the near future. It's too cliche now, that and SW fandom is increasing to further make it known that Vader=Luke's father.
     
  13. Jedi_Master201

    Jedi_Master201 Jedi Knight star 5

    Registered:
    May 5, 2001
    On top of all the others have said, if there happens to be a few newer fans who have no idea about the storyline, and they watch from I-VI, then they will still be surprised, only now it will be the same surprise as Yoda's: Vader actually told Luke, thus throwing a wrench in Luke's mission (or what we the audience first percieve it as).
     
  14. Hannibal-TheCannibal

    Hannibal-TheCannibal Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    Apr 16, 2003
    One would have to live in a bubble or Beirut to be surprised by Vader's paternal revelation these days.....
     
  15. Marbe

    Marbe Jedi Youngling star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 15, 2003
    Vader: Obi-Wan never bothered
    Tellin' you about your father.

    Luke: He told me enough
    He told me you killed him.

    Vader: There is something that I must
    reveal then;
    I'm your father,
    I'm your father,

    I'm your father,
    I'm your father...
     
  16. Guinastasia

    Guinastasia Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jun 9, 2002
    Um, who the hell doesn't know by now that Vader is Luke's father? I mean, c'mon!

    This thread does remind me, though, of that episode of The Simpsons, where they do a flashback and show how Bart was conceived. Marge and Homer go to see The Empire Strikes Back on opening night, and as they're leaving the theater, Homer goes, "Wow, I can't believe that Darth Vader is Luke's father!" And all these people in line start screaming at him.
    "Oh thanks, Mister-ruin-the-movie-for-me!"

    :D
     
  17. That_Wascally_Droid

    That_Wascally_Droid Jedi Knight star 6

    Registered:
    Jul 29, 2001
    I think Lucas should worry more about tellig a strong convincing story moreso than preserving a suprise that isn't... suprising.
    Besides, isn't SW more than just a single moment?
    And in the end, watching it 1 - 6 will give you an infinite amount of more suprises. We don't see it like that, because we already saw the OT.
    Heck, even the dark turn the saga takes will be a suprise.
     
  18. Sithman

    Sithman Jedi Grand Master star 7

    Registered:
    Jul 6, 1999
    As someone else said, it really doesn't bother me. And I think it would have been silly for Lucas to center the entire prequel trilogy around one moment in the OT.

    I think he's doin' it right. :)
     
  19. Krash

    Krash RSA Emeritus star 5 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Oct 11, 2000
    First of all, when someone on the movie screen is talking...they are not talking to you (and this applies to people talking back to the movie...they can't hear you!!!) ;)

    Now that that's off my chest...the "I am your father" scene isn't ruined, because as an audience (see above) what makes that scene an important moment in the SW saga...is Luke's reaction to this disturbing bit of news. Everything he has been lead to believe is a lie ("from a certain point of view") and what makes that scene so powerful for the audience (re-read above warning) is that we watch as Luke's entire belief system is shattered/put to the test.
     
  20. arrowheadpodracer

    arrowheadpodracer Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 9, 2002
    Those of us who saw the OT first enjoyed the surprise. Lucky us.
    Those who see 1-6 in order will enjoy seeing the whole story. Lucky them.

    Its all good. :)
     
  21. Jedi_Master201

    Jedi_Master201 Jedi Knight star 5

    Registered:
    May 5, 2001
    LOL Marbe.


    Best. Song. Ever.
     
  22. SkyWookiee

    SkyWookiee Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Jul 26, 2003
    I got the spoiler wrong and thought Emperor Palpatine was Luke's father.
     
  23. Jabba-wocky

    Jabba-wocky Chosen One star 10

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    May 4, 2003
    I disagree.

    Or at least, it's not anymore ruined than it was after the movie had been out a few weeks. Anyone who saw SW in the late 80s or 90s knew Vader was Luke's father, even though it was their first time seeing it. And yet amny of them still like the scene as much as people who were their for the original revelation.

    Or for instance, take the power of Charleston Heston's "You finally did it, you blew it all up!" line from Planet of the Apes. Or again, the more recent Usual Suspects, in which people were surprised to find that Kent was really Kaiser Soze.

    My point is that its the cleverness of the surprise that makes it powerful. The fact of what's being revealed is not nearly so powerful as the way in which it's revealed. That's what people like about the scene. If you ddon't believe me I would point yyou to the equally surprising--in light of the ESB sexual tension--revelation that Luke was Leia's brother. But it was executed so poorly that its one of the most unmemorable scenes of the Saga.

    So in conclusion, I think the majority of that scene's impactis still intact.
     
  24. TwiLekJedi

    TwiLekJedi Pretty Ex-Mod star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Jun 14, 2001
    good point, I still got shivers when hearing "No, I am your father" for the first time in its Original Version (only knew "Nein, ich bin dein Vater" until then).
     
  25. flying_fishi

    flying_fishi Jedi Knight star 6

    Registered:
    Mar 26, 2002
    You just have to show the OT to future generations when they are very small before they have the opportunity for spoilers and the PT to ruin Star Wars for them.
     
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