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The Will of the Force.

Discussion in 'Classic Trilogy' started by Charr_Kahn, May 25, 2005.

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  1. Charr_Kahn

    Charr_Kahn Jedi Youngling

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    May 25, 2005
    I don't remember if I read this in the Book (ROTS) or in something else but it talks abut Yoda understanding the err the Jedi have made and have been training themselves in the ways of old and are not up to par with the things that are being thrown at them. I think this also runs along with the fact that even though he's somewhat "looked down on" Qui-Gon is actually the most in tune with the force and it's 'living' aspect. For instance (I will bring this back to the original saga I promise) when Anakin kills count Dooku he looks down upon himslef and The Chancellor see's this as a step torwards the Dark Side, that I don't debate; however, If Anakin had slew him in the sense that in fact he WAS to dangerous to be left alive and not for vengance or passion would that have been wrong? Another example could be shown when Luke atempts to slay The Emperor, he tries to out of anger and hate. It's os back and forth that in essence a Jedi losses his advantage and his edge in battle i.e. hides from Vader instead of completeing the task. I'm not implying that the right thing was to slay both his father and the Emperor but lets take a look at it this way Anakin brings his sbaer to his grip to finish the Emperor and is blocked by Vader, the fight continues with a continued persistance to turn his father. Instead of hiding and revealing his sister fights on with controlled Jedi Agression and severs Vaders hand. Upon further temptation from The Emperor ,allows himself a few seconds of calmness and then slays the emperor out of a sense of duty and obligation to uphold the Jedi ideals of protecting the Universe. SPOILER ALERT!!! A perfect example of this in action is the Mace Windu scene about to destroy Palpatine before Anakin intervenes. He is obviously angered and maybe has some revnge in mind for the loss of life across the Galaxy all because of this selfish, evil being... but I get the sense that he is completing what he knows can be done no other way. So when it's done out of duty and obligation to the Jedi ideals of protection and service why is it wrong? I spoke with a friend and we talked of the Yoda fight and why exactley he lost. Niether of us felt as though he was not strong enough but he realised that the Jedi where not meant for this, they where trained for defense against the evils of the universe not to seek them out and do battle against them, so when the Sith have gained so much ground against the Jedi they have no way to really gain it back. SPOILER OVER!!! In the end it's not really Anakin himself that brings the balance to the force but the will of the Force coming to full circle to balance itself out through Anakin. Perhaps the will of the Force is attempting to show the Jedi what they muist become if they wish to avoid the continuous rise and fall of evil, and that is to be able to battle it and even be aggresive against it without submitting to do evil in order to rid the Universe of it. Now a con to my plot of the alter version of Luke killing the Emperor is would Anakin have turned back to the light side? Maybe, maybe not... but in terms of a true Dark Side user none have been turned only Anakin (unless you count Ulic Qel-Droma, or Quinlan Vos which I think are special exceptions in themselves). One possibility to the Prophecy is the fact that Anakin fathered Luke who in turn would have slain the Emperor and brought balance to the Force, so in essence the Prophecy would have still be intact "To a certain point of view". My opinion on the matter would be to train a slightly different form of Jedi, one's that weren't bested or incapable when it came to warfare and 'death sentances' of people who deserved to die i.e. the Jedi still would not have killed Anakin had they captured him after he had killed the youngling's. As far as warfare, yes the Jedi where general's and did win many victories but also lost plenty and lost support from many planets. The Masters readily admitted that they where not soldiers (nor should they be) but my summary is that I believ the Jedi realized that they where ill pre
     
  2. Charr_Kahn

    Charr_Kahn Jedi Youngling

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    May 25, 2005
    I'm VERY SORRY for bumping but please, don't let all this typing be done for nothing... I'd really appreciate any opinion at all. I'm very curious to hear what some of you think. Thanks.
     
  3. KennyT

    KennyT Jedi Youngling star 3

    Registered:
    Mar 25, 2005
    I have read your post twice, and still not sure what aspect you are wanting to discuss. Maybe it is me, but it seems like you are wanting to discuss several topics in this one thread. If you would clarify which aspect of your post you want to discuss, I would be happy to go into it with you.
     
  4. BLUE-3

    BLUE-3 Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    May 24, 2005
    Correct me if I'm wrong, but the overlying theme for the post is a discussion of of how the Jedi code and the ethics they used should be interpreted. The other thing is wheather the Jedi have complete control over the Force or does the Force actually have some control over them.

     
  5. Charr_Kahn

    Charr_Kahn Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    May 25, 2005
    You're right... there are several topics in the topic. My main themes, which are in the post, are the jedi's obvious weakness in the clone wars (i.e. not able to take on the war as generals but protectors.) as stated in the post above if they're the supposed protectors they need to be able to wipe out evil and not just fight against it when comes to their doorstep. Next is they're inability to actually kill. I understand they shouldn't have bloodlust but Count Dooku needed to be killed and if Anakin had killed him out of duty instead of a sense of revenge and hatred then why should that be against the code? Handless or not he needed to be finished for his crimes. This is a weakness to me and you must be prepared to do what is right in war/battle. The way Anakin did it was wrong but there was a right way to finish him. Lastly and the main theme overall is that the Jedi are just plain not trained to participate in this type of environment that occurs in the PT. Full of politics, blood, and hate and instead of controlling it they're caught up in it and defeated. This is why Qui-Gon was right about the Living Force (They need to listen to what was occuring at the moment and allow the force to guide them for then and there) instead of what the council try's to do which almost seems to be the 'long run' of the force. In star Wars I think the council is very wise as beings but if they're are supposed to flow with The FOrce then they shouldn't try to predict it but listen to The Living Force as Qui-Gon did.

    My points are these then:

    1. Unable to effectivley protect the universe, but only offer a strong defense.

    2. Unable to actually finish or kill and opponet or any certain evil, to worried they're emotions will take over and lead them to the Dark Side. (They should be better trained to cope with this and be able to finish a job without becoming emotionally attached)

    4. Most Jedi seem to listen to The Force in the sense that they predict what it is telling them (Almost like controlling it like the Sith --- hmmm?) instead of allowing themselves to be used by it day to day and for the moment, like The Living Force Qui-Gon expresses.

    Summary: All these faults are summarized by Yoda saying that the Jedi have been trained in the 'old ways' and not prepared for what has befallen them. Is it possible that this is why Ben and Yoda encourage Luke to Slay Vader instead of turn him, possibly they learned from past mistakes.

    I realize that this is alot and apologize in advance but it is more than worth being discussed and I think very valid points. Hope this helped!
     
  6. SithLord4488

    SithLord4488 Jedi Youngling star 1

    Registered:
    May 22, 2005
    dude no one wants to read an enormous post like that, especially one that has so many questions in it, try several different threads
     
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