PT The Will Of The Force

I would certainly agree with anakinfansince1983 that the role of the force is sometimes drastically overestimated. If the force really had a conscious will to stop the Sith, it wouldn't have gone about it in such a roundabout fashion, e.g. 20 years of suffering and Empire. Instead, the force would have had Anakin fulfil his destiny in the Chancellors office there and then by having him slice Palpatine's head off. Sith problems solved. So this whole, the force has a will thing is incompatible with the rest of what we see in Star Wars, in my view anyway.

 

No one knows for certain what nature is, if God exists, or if nothing is preordained. That's why humans seek answers to the questions on their minds.

I seriously doubt it was that. From the way I read it, he was using it as a means of showing how people can become who they are meant to be, by way of seeking out the great mysteries of life.

Vader wasn't on Endor for Luke. He was there because his job was to wait for the Alliance to show up and take charge during the assault. As Palpatine said, Luke would seek him out in time, but he didn't see it happening then. And Luke is told that he must face his father, which to Luke meant going to Coruscant. Not to Endor.

If it was pure skill, then why did he need to use the Force?

I wouldn't say it was divine intervention, but an action that was inevitable.

Except he does it before they leave and no one else is strong enough in the Force, but Luke.

Unless the air bags didn't deploy and the seat belts weren't on.

So again, a Jedi cannot see the future? Even though we see Anakin and Luke do that very thing.

 

Just because the Force has a will, it doesn't mean that individuals have to abide by this will ( or even be able to perceive it ). It doesn't mean that the Force controls everyone like puppets. The films emphasize choice and the freedom of individuals to make their own decisions.

Finding someone by random chance? That's not what "plot hole" means.

They are set in a fictional universe of make-believe and as such have no actual relevance to your beliefs regarding the real world.

 

I think the purpose was to make money.

 

i've never heard anyone saying they felt "preached" to by the pt. maybe it's just something you're bringing to it? a film can have a million interpretations but each person brings their own viewpoint to see it with.

 

no it isn't but i can still disagree with it.

 

None of the movies are to be watched as a sermon, but that doesn't mean their story can't have a spiritual side to it. That was Lucas intent by introducing the Force.

 

Which, force or no force, was bloody lucky on Qui-Gon's part. He should play roulette.

 

"Mind tricks don't work on me..."

 

Indeed. Too bad that Qui-Gon just had to deal with a trader who wouldn't accept the standard currency of the galaxy's largest trading bloc. That's life I guess.

 

because he's toydarian.

 

In my experience there's no such thing as luck....thanks to A New Hope Obi Wan!!

 

I dunno. Qui-Gon Jinn doesn't strike me as the simple tricks and nonsense type.

 

I've never believed in luck as some sort of superstition, as in good luck or bad luck, but there is this thing called chance. It doesn't follow people around, it doesn't pick anyone out, there's no design involved, it's just possibility.

That there's no such thing as luck, that nothing happens by accident in Star Wars....is less interesting, to me.

 

I didn't say with absolute certainty that people have a destiny. I merely pointed out that it is entirely possibly that what we think of as just random chance, isn't. But is instead something that was mapped out long ago.

Thinking about it isn't the same as worshiping.

Luke wouldn't have surrendered to the Imperials. He would have carried out the mission as is. Meaning he would have been at the bunker to destroy it and he would have fought against all the Imperials there. The only reason he does is because his father is there. I never said that Luke didn't make a conscious decision to go face Vader. I said that he realized that Obi-wan was right, that he couldn't avoid facing him and realized that it was his destiny to do so.

And as noted, only he could do it because it was his destiny to do so. That's why it was him and no one else.

You miss the big point. The ultimate decision you make is the result of an inevitable choice. People may think that they have a choice, but the choice has already been made. If you wanted a blizzard instead of a latte, then that was the inevitable conclusion. You just cannot see that it was going to be your decision since you cannot see your future.

Only because you cannot see what choice you will make beforehand.

What if they were?

Why? Why does the idea that Obi-wan had a vision the night before that Luke was going to be killed by the Tusken Raiders and he heads out to find him at first light bother you? Did it bother you that Luke saw Han and Leia suffering and thus went to rescue them?

Both. The point was to entertain and as noted, to illustrate that maybe there is something more out there. It doesn't preach because there is no one saying it in grand exposition. Rather, like a lot of mythological stories, it comes through the actions of the characters.

 

- Do you believe in fate, Neo?
- No.
- Why not?
- Because I don't like the idea that I'm not in control of my life.

- Choice. The problem is choice.

- Why, Mr Anderson? Why? Why do you persist?
- Because I choose to.

The Wachowskies were spot on! It all comes down to choice. We choose what to do with our lives and we choose what to believe, based on our preferences.
Some people are like Neo. They don't like the idea that they're not in control, for various reasons, so they choose not to believe in fate.
Others are like Morpheus, who lives for the dream of a better tomorrow. He chooses to believe in fate because it's what keeps him going.
Then there are those who believe in the possibility of fate but aren't really inclined one way or the other. They'd be fine either way.

It's obvious which category Qui-Gon belongs to. He's a devoted servant of the Living Force and trusts his instincts completely. He absolutely believes that by following his instincts and being mindful of the Living Force, he receives guidance from the Will of the Force.

My take on Anakin's story is that bringing balance was his destiny but how he got there was entirely up to him. He didn't have to mess things up in ROTS, but he chose that route anyway.
Since Luke helped Anakin fulfill his destiny, though, I think that he and Leia were a stroke of destiny, a safety measure in case things would get ugly.
That does not mean that hooking up with Padmé was destiny, though. No, that was a choice that led to Darth Vader. If that hadn't happened, the kids wouldn't have been needed...

 

http://boards.theforce.net/threads/...-dark-side-more.50020635/page-2#post-51633317

If you look at post #34 in that thread, you'll see an explanation as to why I think Anakin's emotions and actions were influenced by the force due to being concieved by midi-chlorians. But can we conclude from the information presented in that post, that the "will of the force" is to eliminate the Jedi because they were becoming too militarized when they agreed to use the clone army? I mean, it's basically implied that people with the force can somewhat see into the future from this dialogue in the Empire Strikes Back:

[Luke has seen a vision of Han, Leia and Chewie being tortured in Cloud City]
Luke: I saw - I saw a city in the clouds.
Yoda: [nods] Friends you have there.
Luke: They were in pain...
Yoda: It is the future you see.
Luke: The future?
[pause]
Luke: Will they die?
Yoda: [closes his eyes for a moment] Difficult to see. Always in motion is the future.

But does this mean the "the force saw" into the future, and, wanting to "bring balance to the force", made Anakin turn to the dark side by killing those Tusken Raiders so that events would be set into motion which would lead to the elimination of the Jedi because they were becoming too militarized with their usage of the clone army?