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  1. In Memory of LAJ_FETT: Please share your remembrances and condolences HERE

Amph The Writers' Guild

Discussion in 'Archive: SF&F: Books and Comics' started by -RebelScum-, Jan 3, 2006.

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  1. malcolm-darth-am-i

    malcolm-darth-am-i Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    May 21, 2005
    OverLord sounds cooler. Oh what ever Ill go wil Host. Its more offical.

    Well I feel we dont need a host yet. We are still in brainstorming. Once we get out of the is stage and actually begin to write hard rules, that is when we need a Host. And yes Host would pick a worthy Co-Host.

     
  2. Sanctimoniously

    Sanctimoniously Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Dec 28, 2005
    FINALLY!!!!!

    I write sci-fi. I am currently writing a sci-fi novel (no title yet, I'm horrible at coming up with titles [face_plain] ) which is working on 305 pages and is probably 65 percent complete. I see that we're discussing how this all will work. Please fill me in. :D
     
  3. -RebelScum-

    -RebelScum- Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    Feb 21, 2004
    Hey Sanct, good to have you among us, do you mean it is 305 and 60% done or 60% to 305?

    -The Scummy-
     
  4. Sanctimoniously

    Sanctimoniously Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Dec 28, 2005
    The first one.
     
  5. Kartanym

    Kartanym Jedi Knight star 6

    Registered:
    May 23, 2002
    If this writing comp goes ahead, can I make a suggestion. Each new comp be limited to a different word count limit. For example, say one week the challenge is to write in less then 100, etc. Just to mix things up a little.

    I'd be up for a Judge position. Gives me a chance to work on my critique skills.
     
  6. JediNemesis

    JediNemesis Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 27, 2003
    This thread has ballooned. :eek: You know, the people in this thread are really onto something good here. Laying aside potential copyright issues for original fiction, I love the idea of a monthly or bi-monthly writing competition or challenge. I'd join in, to compete and to judge - obviously not in the same round, but I could do with the practice in critique as well as in writing.

    I agree with whoever said that this should be for original fiction, not fanfiction, but I think that the best thing the Guild can do here is get the fanficcers involved. Some suggestions:

    - I second contacting rhonderoo, as she's the FF manager with the greatest presence here, and probably Healer_Leona as well. Maybe we could get some publicity over in the Fanfiction forums (I swear half the people there are wrestling with original fantasy :p )

    - Find some people who've run challenges over in FanFic. I've competed in several challenges there, though I've never judged, and I have a vague idea of how the logistics work, but consulting the mods and people who do judge duty could be helpful.

    - I think we should keep it bi-monthly if we're going to have a word limit of 8000 as Coruscant suggested, monthly if shorter. We have lives. :p

    - I also think we should vary it every now and then, like Kartanym suggested. Short story isn't everyone's cup of tea, and it isn't always easy to churn out 6-8000 words even over two months. Shorter and weirder varieties should be thrown in every now and then.

    - Lastly, I definitely think that if it can be, a comp like this should be mod-sponsored. Colours and title for a week for the winner. Bragging rights are great, but on the JC a pretty-coloured username is one of the few visible perks. [face_batting]

    To paraphrase: I really hope this comes through :D
     
  7. Genimay

    Genimay Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 2, 2005
    Yes!!!

    I have finally found others who love writing sci-fi! I have a couple short stories finished and about 12 long ones started. I am about 400 pages into one. (Old english 12 font single space)

    I have been working on it a couple years and it has been rewriting about 400 times.
     
  8. Jairen

    Jairen Manager Emeritus star 4 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Sep 1, 2000
    This is my worry with this competition. I agree with earlier statements that entries should be done through PM, as this does not publically make your writing available, but I am wary of allowing the story to be read by everyone, even after completion.

    The reason for this is that if I ever want to publish one of those short stories, first publication rights have already been lost, since it is publically available on the internet. How do we intend to get round this issue? The only way I have seen is in the many on-line critique sites around that require you to be a paid-member, and as such the writing is not publically available and is posted in a private club for critiquing purposes.

    I would be interested in whether anyone has considered this.
     
  9. Coruscant

    Coruscant Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Feb 15, 2004
    Regarding the copyright issues...

    My mailman, Dennis (who is credited as an advisor to something in Episode II), was a former Hollywood screenwriter. He never really broke out, but he was in it for quite a while. Anyway, he and I have talked for great length on occassion while he would be eating lunch during his break, in my front yard.

    Copyrighting was one of our discussions. IIRC, he told me that simply enveloping your work (or WIP, even), addressing it to yourself, and mailing it, is grounds for a thorough copyright. Now I don't remember if possibly I'm missing something here, but the next chance I'll get, I'll talk to him about copyright and the internet, and all that jazz.

    EDIT: Just thought... it could be that thing I was trying to remember was not to open the envelope when it was sent back to you. Just file it away. That might've been what it was.

    This is what we're concerned about, right... the possibility that sending uncopyrighted works over the channels of the internet could be taken by others and copyrighted by them?

     
  10. Jairen

    Jairen Manager Emeritus star 4 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Sep 1, 2000
    I've removed the quote from my post above, since copyright is not really a bother for me. There are ways to secure your copyright.

    My big worry is around publishing rights for any work that we put up here if it is made publically available. Internet publication DOES count as a form of publishing, and as such would be "First publication" for many of these stories. Many places where you might wish to publish will only do so if they have "First publication" rights, which they would no longer have after you post the story here for public reading.

    That is my concern.
     
  11. ShrunkenJedi

    ShrunkenJedi Jedi Knight star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 26, 2003
    Hello, Guild :D

    Great idea. I've mostly been writing fanfic recently, but I sincerely want to do original writing. If only I could get that discipline :(

    I'll certainly be keeping tabs on this thread.
     
  12. malcolm-darth-am-i

    malcolm-darth-am-i Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    May 21, 2005
    Ya I see the First Publications problems. We could say if you wanted to post it you can but you do know it will likely never be in a book.

    I also like the rotateing limits. It would be cool. Mix it up a little.

    I think the jubges should be selected by the first Host, Co-Host and the Mod who runs this thing. We all duily note some want to be judges, but it cant all be done. We will have roughly 9 judges. I think our trusty Host should also be a judge. We have roughly 7 openings for judges.

    Well I think were geting somewere. I will try to get on as much as possible to track the movment. But I have school Monday and stuff to do later. So I'll keep tabs.
     
  13. Coruscant

    Coruscant Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Feb 15, 2004
    Alright, all those who know they want to be a judge should contact Dorkman or post in this thread that he/she wishes it. Dorkman can make the final selections.

    Additionally, there should a "Host's Privilege", the reward for his labors.... How about this: Eight judges send in their scorecards/numbers. Then Dorkman adds his own to the pile, which is thrice in value compared to the others, allowing him to bear something like "three votes", so to speak.

    I'll give some examples, but let me lay my idea for a grading system.

    Each judge has a 100 points behind him/her, totalling for 800 points, excluding Dorkman, the Host. Dorkman's points number 300, for a grand total of 1100 points (good number- that 11).

    Now lets say one story has gotten 300 points, and another has recieved 500 points. The rest of the points cancel each other out. If Dorkman aims to give his 300 to the first, then that story will win 600-500.

    Another example... one story has 100 points, the other has an amazing 700. If Dorkman gives his 300 to the first, then that story still loses 400-700.

    So, with this power of Host's Privilege, Dorkman has the power to break ties (400-400- ties would be really rare since I'm using "solid" numbers here... I'd say the average point total for a winning short would be more like 90-95 from each judge that votes for that particular short), and his vote will not be able to cause any further ties.


    EDIT: I think we should get preliminary sign-ups going...

    Entrants:

    1. Coruscant
    2.

    Judges (bid only):

    1.
    2.

    Obviously, the entrants' list might change once the story guidelines for the first round are revealed.

     
  14. malcolm-darth-am-i

    malcolm-darth-am-i Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    May 21, 2005
    Entrants:

    1. Coruscant
    2. malcolm-darth-am-i
    3.
    4.
    5.


    Judges (bid only):

    1.
    2.
    3.
    4.
    5.

     
  15. JediNemesis

    JediNemesis Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 27, 2003
    I think before starting this competition in earnest we should get some kind of consensus on what Jairen said. Copyright is all very well, but the First Publication thing might conceivably be a problem. Who knows, one of us might get famous and want to publish all their early work . . . [face_thinking]

    So how about if the stories never see light of Internet in general? Say we hold a competition: all entries via PM. The competition is judged, and the results (by title only) go up in the thread.

    Then, if we want to do a book-group-style group critique/analysis of the winning story (judges say how they marked it and why, readers give opinions) I think it'd be best if the judges/Host circulated PMs to everyone 'registered' with the Guild, via PM or email if necessary.

    If I understand rightly, circulation through private channels doesn't count as publication, does it? Then we can all read it, critique it in-thread to our hearts' content, and it hasn't been officially published.




    Entrants:

    1. Coruscant
    2. malcolm-darth-am-i
    3. [b]JediNemesis[/b]
    4.
    5.

    Judges (bid only):

    1.
    2.
    3.
    4.
    5.
     
  16. Andalite-Bandit

    Andalite-Bandit Jedi Padawan star 6

    Registered:
    Apr 25, 2005
    I think if this contest is created, the less restrictions the better. If there has to be a theme or a prmompt or something, it should be somewhat vague. I think there should be a larger word count range, or not even have a requirement at all. The quality of the story should be the only thing under consideration. A story of 1000 words could easily be superior to a story of 8000 words, or it could just as easily be the other way around. I don't think length needs to be factored into the rules.

    The only other thing I disagree with is the idea of the host having more voting power than the others. It is not a big deal or anything, it just seems unnecessary to me.

    In regards to the copywright issue, according to some section on writing.com, if you upload one of your stories there you still have the right to get it published on your own and do whatever you want with it, so perhaps it would be a good idea to do that.
     
  17. Coruscant

    Coruscant Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Feb 15, 2004
    I agree about the vagueness. However, there's a considerable difference between 1,000 and 8,000. 1 grand is, like, short short. I think a minimum of, in the very least, 4,000 would be reasonable. Fact is, it's easier to write a quality short short story than a quality short story.

    Okay, concerning publication... I don't think that just because it was published somewhere on the internet, doesn't mean it still can't get published later on. But I'm not exactly sure... I'll have to ask my mailman about it. He knows this maze like the back of his hand.

    Also, the Host should have larger point-giving power because it's his privilege for being host and taking time out of his day to coordinate and conduct the competition. He has actual stuff to do other than grading, unlike the judges (basically, all they do is their individual grading). Of course, it's really up to Dorkman if he wants to accept my idea.

    I'd just like to add that I've had experience with hosting (the Sleepy Games) and know very well that an unmotivated host can be death for the game. I had to create incentive for myself other than just making the game fun for the players. There was a brief point when I turned Sleepy Hotel into my dollhouse, because basically there had been nothing in it for me. The host needs incentive to keep him going and on the ball when it comes to the competition. He'll have to handle questions, grading, point totalling, etc... (but some just at select times) and it can and will become quite a hassle. The knowledge that he's got a considerable sway in who wins can keep him going.

    Which is why I think it would be wise for Dorkman or whoever shall be Host, to take the Privilege (specifically not a Right, a poor host should have the privilege taken away). It may look easy now, but it probably isn't going to be.


     
  18. JediNemesis

    JediNemesis Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 27, 2003
    If I understand correctly, the problem isn't that we wouldn't have the right to publish afterward, but that no literary agency would want to spend money publishing it if it were already generally available on the Internet for free.
     
  19. Andalite-Bandit

    Andalite-Bandit Jedi Padawan star 6

    Registered:
    Apr 25, 2005
    I still think it is unfair to the entrants if the host has more voting power than everybody else. If this happens, it would be possible for more judges to like one story, but another story that the host prefers would win. I don't think that's a good idea. It would make it so the winner won not because he had a better story, but because he got lucky on a technicality. This should only be about writing quality, and in order to make sure it stays like that I think voting power needs to remain completely equal. I don't think the host is going to mind if his vote only counts as one vote.
     
  20. JediNemesis

    JediNemesis Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 27, 2003
    Forgot to reply to that bit [face_blush] I agree with you, although it'd be reasonable to let the Host have the deciding vote in the event of a tie, IMO.
     
  21. -RebelScum-

    -RebelScum- Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    Feb 21, 2004
    The reason for this is that if I ever want to publish one of those short stories, first publication rights have already been lost, since it is publically available on the internet. How do we intend to get round this issue? The only way I have seen is in the many on-line critique sites around that require you to be a paid-member, and as such the writing is not publically available and is posted in a private club for critiquing purposes.

    I think it should be optional, if you don't want to show your story, fine. If so, cool I'd enjoy seeing it.

    Also, what exactly is writing.com?

    And I think anonymity is important, i.e. a trusted user gets a sock and everyone PMs him, and then he shoots the PMs to the judges to make sure even subconscious biasing isn't possible.


    And I'll put my name down but I don't know if signups should go up untill we figure out what this competitions theme/limits are but I'll still put my name down.

    1. Coruscant
    2. malcolm-darth-am-i
    3. JediNemesis
    4. -RebelScum-
    5.

    -The Scummy-
     
  22. JediNemesis

    JediNemesis Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 27, 2003
    Definitely.

    So, so far we have need of:

    1 Host (co-ordinator, Head Judge and holder of casting vote)
    1 Manager (rotated sock to deal with PM'ing)
    4/6/8 Judges
    Entrants.

     
  23. Sanctimoniously

    Sanctimoniously Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Dec 28, 2005
    Here is what Andalite was talking about. It's a pretty big writing community. I myself am a mamber. Pretty good site, that.

    I'll go ahead and sign up as well.

    1. Coruscant
    2. malcolm-darth-am-i
    3. JediNemesis
    4. -RebelScum-
    5. Sanctimoniously

     
  24. JediNemesis

    JediNemesis Jedi Padawan star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 27, 2003
    Even if the competitions take a while to get sorted, a list of people interested would be useful. Maybe a 'register' of sorts.
     
  25. Coruscant

    Coruscant Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Feb 15, 2004
    Alright, I concede the Host's Privilege on the grounds that the most liked entry (in judge numbers) should win. Overlooked that little (big) tidbit.

    I'm pretty sure we're set on 9 judges, including Host. Should Co-Host be a judge? (in which case, Co-Host can't be an entrant. If Co-Host is an entrant, he obviously wouldn't be able to handle any of the story submissions as well)

    Setting aside the 1100 point system (or 900, however you look at it) I used earlier as an example, we need to determine exactly how many points each judge will have the ability to give. There should be different categories in which points are scored. The number of those categories determines how many total points each judge wields.

    So, two things... 1. What are the categories going to be? 2. How many points per category? I'd say that the number of points per category should not be set... they should diffrentiate on basis of importance to short stories. E.G., one category could be Personal Relation (the judge's own personal liking of the story), which would be low in point priority compared to something like Character Development.

    Some suggestions for categories (in no particular order):

    Character Development (duh)
    World Development
    Personal Relation
    Tone
    Technical Detail
    Flow

    More later...

    EDIT: Just noticed, we are now the second largest thread in the forum! :D With quality posts! Go Guild!

    Some more categories:

    Grammar
    Style/Prose
    Plot
    Setting (could be World Dev.)
    Descriptive Detail


     
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