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Full Series The Yoda Arc (6.10-6.13) Discussion Thread

Discussion in 'Star Wars TV- Completed Shows' started by AkashKedavra_93, Mar 5, 2014.

  1. Sable_Hart

    Sable_Hart Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 28, 2009
    I see where you're coming from, but I think it would be pretty hard to pull off. "Ambush" was great for Yoda in the same way that "The Lawless" was great for Darth Sidious: it took the two most powerful conventional characters and gave them a chance to flex their considerable muscles.

    But watching episode after episode of Yoda or Sidious showing up and laying waste to their enemies would eventually become boring, I think, and undermine the enemy.
     
  2. Pfluegermeister

    Pfluegermeister Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 30, 2003
    Many people like Ambush, and for good reason. Hell, it was that episode that made me comfortable with the whole IDEA of the series. I never went to see the film in the theaters largely because I wasn't sold on whether they needed to go back there, or should. But it was that scene in the cave with Yoda and the three clones that convinced me that the people making this were at least TRYING to make it feel like Star Wars should feel. Of course (IMO) they went on to do more and better later, but Ambush sold me on the series. It seems to have sold a LOT of people on it. I suspect they wanted that episode televised first largely for that reason: it almost seems DESIGNED to sell people on the show.
     
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  3. Watto

    Watto Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 13, 1998
    Togruta That's fair... it seems they were being torn between all the characters to use, and some got short shrift. After Ahsoka's departure it seems they were opening the door for more Yoda, Mace, and then eventually Quinlan Vos which we never got to see.
     
  4. Dark Lord Tarkas

    Dark Lord Tarkas Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 29, 2011
    Even though he was rarely the main character, we still see Yoda constantly throughout the series, so I never felt that they needed to show much more of him.

    The arc with him and the Wookiees had a lot of potential. Before Ep. V when GL was talking about doing 12 Star Wars films, he said some of them would be "odd" films away from the main story of Luke, and he specifically listed two movies he planned to do in this vein: a film all about droids and a film all about Wookiees. I believe strongly that the S5 droids arc was GL finally getting around to his odd droids film he always wanted to do, and I get the strong impression that a four-episode arc all about Wookiees would have been GL finally getting around to his odd Wookiees film, and I would have loved to see it for that reason alone.
     
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  5. Saga_Symphony

    Saga_Symphony Force Ghost star 4

    Registered:
    Oct 30, 2010
    Why would it be hard to pull off? I don't think "Ambush" was showing off Yoda as being particularly epic or powerful; we see him in action and it's cool, but all he beats are droids. It's like any Jedi mission with clones, such as Anakin or Obi-Wan's, just with Yoda instead, whereas "The Lawless" was really Sidious just dominating and being a Sith badass. I don't think they have the same level of "usability" as characters.. plus it's not like the good guys often lose in TCW anyway, no matter who they are.
     
  6. TaradosGon

    TaradosGon Manager Emeritus star 5 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Feb 28, 2003

    And yet, I remember back when TFU was coming out, I think it was Haden Blackman that had remarked that when they were first trying to develop a story for a game - before setting on what would become TFU - they had tossed around the idea of a Darth Maul game, and then suggested the idea to Lucas of a Wookiee game, and Lucas apparently looked at them like they were crazy and that nobody would play a game where the characters just grunt and roar.
     
  7. Dark Lord Tarkas

    Dark Lord Tarkas Jedi Grand Master star 5

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    Apr 29, 2011
    TaradosGon wouldn't be the first time GL changed his mind on something or slipped something and then denied it until it actually came out.
     
  8. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Skywalker Saga/LFL/YJCC Manager star 10 Staff Member Manager

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    Mar 4, 2011
    Understatement of the year.
     
  9. Pfluegermeister

    Pfluegermeister Jedi Grand Master star 4

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    Jun 30, 2003
    To be fair, he'd learned the audience's tolerances for that the hard way with the Holiday Special...
     
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  10. BigAl6ft6

    BigAl6ft6 Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Nov 12, 2012
    I will say "There is another Skywalker" ending bit gave me chills. I loved it.

    Here's a bit of a thing, were they A) saying "BTW, Padme is pregnant" There is another Skywalker, don't sweat this Anakin punk" B) Yoda was flashing forward to his final dying words C) there is another Skywalker that we don't know about that will be The Big Deal in Episode 7? So they were flashing forward all the way to the ST? I hope it's actually a combination of all 3!
     
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  11. Vthuil

    Vthuil Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Jan 3, 2013
    According to the episode guide, Yoda is experiencing a vision of his own dying words.
     
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  12. purplerain

    purplerain Jedi Knight star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 14, 2013
    Did anyone else notice the irony that Yoda was on Korriban while Sidious was on Coruscant? I love this irony.
     
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  13. Sable_Hart

    Sable_Hart Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Nov 28, 2009
    I'm usually pretty quick to deliver reviews, but even weeks after the fact, I'm not sure how I feel about this arc.
     
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  14. Revanfan1

    Revanfan1 Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jun 3, 2013
    While that may be so, I also believe that it was the Prophetesses' way of saying "don't worry, there's a hero out there who will save the day."
     
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  15. Contessa

    Contessa Jedi Master star 3

    Registered:
    Nov 28, 2013
    [​IMG]
     
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  16. Vthuil

    Vthuil Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Jan 3, 2013
    Oh please don't even start with that.
     
  17. Mzukiller

    Mzukiller Jedi Padawan star 2

    Registered:
    Sep 5, 2012
    Not exactly series finale material, but it was very appropriate to have Yoda, the big good of the setting, be the one that's getting tested for once. This arc was a 9/10 for me, no doubt about it. I remember now why he's one of my favorite Jedi.

    One thing I can say I appreciate is that this series never tried to bury the concept of Midichlorians. TCW use them and then ran with them into a decent direction. I also appreciate how....demonic the ancient Sith were. So evil and so powerful, that even Yoda's afraid of them. One thing I didn't get though was the last minute change of Dooku's costume. Were the shoulder pads supposed to mean something?
     
  18. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Skywalker Saga/LFL/YJCC Manager star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Mother Talzin hid the rest of his clothes. He had to dig up his clothes from the 80s.
     
  19. Vthuil

    Vthuil Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Jan 3, 2013
    According to starwars.com, between Yoda, Sidious, the priestesses, and the Sith ghosts, Dooku's standard outfit was a cape too far for the animators, so a new "sparring outfit" was introduced for this episode - presumably it would have been reused if the series hadn't been cancelled.
     
  20. TaradosGon

    TaradosGon Manager Emeritus star 5 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Feb 28, 2003
    I thought this arc made things unnecessarily complicated in that there are arbitrary tests a person must go through to Force Ghost. And when Filoni speaks of the power to retain one's identity after death, he seems to imply that it is an unnatural ability, and that in the natural order, the Living Force in each individual merges into the Cosmic Force upon death, and the sense of individuality is lost.

    But then you have Qui-Gon choosing to talk to Yoda and only Yoda, and treating them like they are old friends, when throughout TPM they are at odds with one another. Granted, they aren't enemies, but it didn't seem like they were at all good friends, and it's odd to me that Qui-Gon chose Yoda and not Obi-Wan as the individual to make contact with.

    IMO, the implication there was that Qui-Gon couldn't exactly choose who to speak with, that Yoda was the only one sufficiently powerful in the Force to make contact with Qui-Gon and then he would be the one to pass knowledge on to Obi-Wan. Though this is complicated by the fact that Qui-Gon can manipulate the physical world, and so maybe could not have spoken to other Jedi, but definitely could have proven his existence. But instead he chooses not to and tells Yoda not to tell anybody until seemingly after the Jedi get slaughtered and then Qui-Gon apparently says it's OK to tell Obi-Wan (when Obi-Wan could have easily been killed between the initial execution of Order 66 and this point).

    It's bizarre to me that Qui-Gon is content to sacrifice his padawan and the Jedi Order and to order Yoda not to speak a word of what he had discovered.

    I really wish that they had removed the line about Qui-Gon telling Yoda not to tell anyone; I wish they had retconned this episode as taking place pretty much immediately before ROTS, even though I know it is not meant to be (due to Anakin's presence), or even overlapping with the events of ROTS a bit, if it were to take place between the Battle of Coruscant and the Battle of Kashyyyk for instance; this would have required they remove Dooku from the episode as well; and I wish that they had established that perhaps the ability to see a Force Ghost is somehow related to the bond established between an individual and the deceased, that Luke can see Yoda and Obi-Wan, but it didn't seem Leia could, or that Yoda could hear Qui-Gon but perhaps Qui-Gon couldn't reveal himself to Mace or some of the others, even if he tried.

    I just felt this arc would have made much greater sense being almost direct before or concurrent with some of the events of ROTS. That Yoda makes contact with Qui-Gon, goes to the Council, they perhaps decide that they'll talk about it later (not realizing that there isn't going to be a later), while the invasion of Coruscant or Battle of Kashyyyk end up taking Yoda out of the picture and distract the Jedi from investigating the matter further.

    Something like:

    Battle of Coruscant

    Yoda makes contact with Qui-Gon and goes on his mission, returns and reports to the Council about how he has had an experience that shows that suggest it is possible for individuals to maintain an existence after death. The Jedi have to deal with Palpatine taking control of the Jedi Order and so decide to discuss this at a later date.

    Palpatine plants the idea in Anakin's head that the Jedi are keeping knowledge from him regarding how to achieve immortality and keep someone alive.

    Anakin approaches Yoda about how to stop someone from dying and Yoda has a very optimistic view of death, which isn't exactly what Anakin wanted to hear

    Yoda gets called away to Kashyyyk.

    Order 66 is initiated

    Yoda tells Obi-Wan of Qui-Gon when they finally get a moment to discuss things and are no longer racing to stop the Sith.
     
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  21. Vialco

    Vialco Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Mar 6, 2007
    I enjoyed the illusion of the Temple courtyard where Yoda sees all his old friends and comrades.

    Qui-Gon, Adi Gallia, Tiplar are alive. Dooku, Barriss and Ahsoka are all still loyal members of the Jedi Order, and there is no hint of the war.

    That's a really nice image at the end, of all the Jedi standing together in the bright, sunny courtyard. It's a great example of what would have been, if not for the Sith.

    I really liked the moments between Yoda and Dooku. It shows that they were in fact Master and Apprentice, a long time ago, and shared a bond as strong as the other Master-Apprentice pairs. It's Dooku's strong connection to Yoda that allows Sidious and Dooku to reach across time and space and attack Yoda.
     
  22. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Skywalker Saga/LFL/YJCC Manager star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Mar 4, 2011
    I liked that scene as well; it made me sad for "what might have been" if it weren't for Sidious.
     
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  23. Werebazs

    Werebazs Jedi Master star 1

    Registered:
    Mar 20, 2013
    Ohm, so it's confusing that an unnatural ability isn't handed-out to just about anyone?
    Just because their opinions and views differed, doesn't mean they couldn't have been close friends.

    At the end of "Voices" Gui-Gon said that Yoda was chosen to be taught. So yes, he couldn't choose who to speak with, because he had been ordered to speak with Yoda specifically.
    Qui-Gon was fine with letting a 9-year-old enter a death-competition in order to get him the parts he needed. Based upon solely his trust in the Force. If the Force-beings who taught this technique to him, told him not to reveal it to anyone they didn't allow him to, chances are he'd go along with it. Obi-Wan simply hadn't proven himself enough, until he defeated Vader.
     
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  24. TaradosGon

    TaradosGon Manager Emeritus star 5 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Feb 28, 2003
    Werebazs

    "The Dark Side of the Force is a pathway to many abilities some consider to be unnatural." -Darth Sidious

    Which implies to me that the Dark Side goes against the natural order, while the Light Side does not. So, it's odd to me that these priestesses are talking about compassion and ultimate selflessness leading to an ability that goes against what is natural

    Obi-Wan speaks to Yoda and Luke pretty much whenever he feels like it, so it seems in the OT. I didn't get the vibe that he was waiting around for permission from a third party.

    I'm saying there's absolutely no reason for Qui-Gon not to tell the Jedi. What did that achieve? So Yoda was chosen, and he was forbidden to speak of it to anyone else, seemingly because they weren't chosen, and then Obi-Wan was chosen when he was the only Jedi left standing along side Yoda. This sounds like an element of story telling present for no other reason than to prevent contradiction of what was established, with no logical reason to exist IU. Because if someone can point to me why it would be bad for Yoda saying "I've made contact with Qui-Gon, he knows how to retain one's identity after death, I fear we are going to lose this war, teach you, I must, to retain your identity after death. Lost, we have. But victory for all time, we may yet achieve," I am all ears. And because the deus ex machina Force priestess says so is really stupid, IMO, that's ME3 territory.

    Instead Yoda hints that he may have found a way to win over the Sith (but he'll never tell!)

    The prior instance of Yoda making contact with Qui-Gon on Polis Massa and telling him how to retain one's identity after death right then, with Yoda then telling Obi-Wan more-or-less RIGHT AWAY, makes waaaay more sense and doesn't require explanations of trying to make something else fit.
     
  25. Werebazs

    Werebazs Jedi Master star 1

    Registered:
    Mar 20, 2013
    The Sith seek to achive immortality by extending their time in the physical relm, in ways that go against the natural flows of the Force. The way I see it, based upon the deaths of Ben and Yoda, to become a Force-ghost, one not only must accept death as a part of life and order of the Force, but they have to give themselves over to it readily. Obviously there are other factors, other things they need to know, but that's the most basic part. Kind of like the Numenorians in the Tolkienverse, who upon feeling their end closing, could simply choose to lay down and fall asleep, just a bit earlier, going out with dignity, or could hang on to their life desperately, until their body gave out. If someone with the knowledge of the Priestesses, gave themselves to the flows of the universe willingly in the moment of their death, they still become one with it, but with their identity in tact.
    (Obviously suicide doesn't count -at least not, if it's sole purpose is to become a Force Ghost, but a heroic sacrififce could work, because it's against the will of the Force.)
    So I guess I'm saying it's not unnatural, rather than supernatural. It's unnatural to use the Force to coerce the body to function, long after it should've given out, and so is transfering the identity into a body that never belonged to the person (even if it's a clone-body without an identity of it's own), because these go against the natural flows. It's supernatural to retain the identity within the natural flows of the Force.
    Probably because Luke was also chosen?

    The Jedi Order as a whole, has lost their touch with the Light Side at this point. Even when Yoda returned, what was Windu's first concern? Whether Yoda found or not a way to win the Clone Wars. Obi-Wan had the opportunity to kill Vader on Mustafar. But he chose to spare him, and let the Force decide about Vader's fate, proving himself worthy to learn the secret, much like Yoda proved himself, when he didn't let Anakin fall, in exchange for a chance to kill Sidious.