Full Series The Yoda Arc (6.10-6.13) Discussion Thread

Got through these episodes finally. I will say that it was something and it does get you thinking. They said their goal was to get people thinking after these episodes and they succeeded because while a good few questions were answered there were still some that confused me mainly because of the overuse of the visions it's hard to tell what's real and what's not. What could be and what will be. So to clear myself of the confusion I'm just gonna believe anything that didn't happen in the movies then I don't believe they were real and I think that was the intention. As sad as that scene with Ahsoka was and it was great to hear Ashley again one last time I don't believe it will happen until it does same thing with the other Jedi who were shown dead that haven't died yet. Anyway I'll get onto the stuff I liked:

While the visions were very cryptic they were still handled really well. Everything from Yoda's reactions to the stuff he witnesses is timed well and is very poignant and sad but his vision at the end does leave some form of hope. It was cool to hear Tom Kane say "There is another Skywalker" but I think it would have been way cooler if they used the actual Frank Oz audio from Return Of The Jedi. Come on how cool would that have been? Or is it just me?


The animation and designs. Man were these episodes stunning. I always said Clone Wars broke boundaries and surprised me with everything they could do with animation and these episodes are no exception. Every environment felt so real from getting Dagobah exactly like it was, too the planet Yoda finds the Whills on very beautiful environment and Korriban (Moraband. I know they changed it but if they said it goes by many different names I'll just stick with one I know) looks exactly like it was and was a pretty scary environment. The effects on the Sith spirits and the fire effect on Darth Bane were pretty cool and really stuck out as eye catching. Also I noticed the Miyazaki imagery as well as especially the Whills design which stuck out to me as interesting and unique. So yeah animation fantastic.

The story. The story was a pretty fascinating journey and story. It felt like a real experience and it was more then just a cartoon I saw it as a film and I didn't just see Yoda go on a journey I was on the journey with him and I was scared for him even though I know he lives but it made me want him to succeed I was really rooting for him to succeed against these odds. Seeing him go through these trials and see someone who usually is calm and collected actually show fear and sadness and wasn't completely the powerful Jedi he was believed to be and in a vulnerable state like that it was fascinating and quite sad. You get Yoda's sadness and you feel for him and how he is made believe he failed but then is given hope at the end by his own dying words which again I thought was really cool to hear.

The voice acting. Definitely fantastic work here. I don't know if he's on equal ground with Ian Abercrombie (Which it is cool that we got to see him in a series of episodes again. Shame the episodes were ones I really didn't like) I now believe Tim Curry as Palpatine/Sidious. Yeah I can tell it's him in the role better now then I did in The Wrong Jedi and it was a little distracting at first after seeing a couple of different episodes with him I got used to it. Also it was cool and kind of funny to hear the traditional Tim Curry laugh creep into the Sidious performance towards the end in his fight with Yoda. The Darth Bane cameo was the highlight of the episodes and while it was short it was still cool. Recognised Mark Hamill instantly which I'm glad about because the trailer made it look like they were going to distort his voice to the point it would be unrecognisable but thankfully they didn't. I liked how the performance wasn't a re-tread of Joker and was more-so like his portrayal of Fire Lord Ozai from Avatar The Last Airbender. I love Mark's performance as the Joker as much as anyone honestly he's my favourite actor to portray the character but going for a more subdued calm performance like he did with Ozai works for someone like Darth Bane because like Ozai he would be confident in himself and have no need to fear Yoda. The only time I sort of heard the Joker was when Yoda denounces him as a mere spirit and he is sucked back into his coffin the scream he gives off sounds similar to the Joker but that's very minor the scene was still really cool and it was great to finally hear Mark's voice on the show. Liam Neeson as Qui-Gon was cool to hear again and it was cool to see Qui-Gon alive again even if it was just a vision. But the man of the hour and best performance of these episodes was the voice of Yoda himself Tom Kane. Someone give this man an Emmy or I hope he gets a lot of praise because he deserves it. Much like I said about Dee Bradley Baker, he conveys every emotion and action with such skill that he's not just doing the character's voice he is Yoda. He is Frank Oz. I seriously commend him for his performance and it was a great story for him to go out on for now as the character.

Overall definitely something you'll be thinking about for awhile and it did have a lot of great things in it. Like everyone I'm sad it's over but in the end all good things must come to an end. Just remember this quote which I think sums up this farewell to Clone Wars as a whole "Don't cry because it's over smile because it happened"-Dr. Seuss

Great arc and a fitting end to a brilliant series that I will be sure to visit again many times in the future.

 

My only two complaints for this arc (other than the aforementioned things not fitting nicely, IMO) are:

1. What the hell kind of trials were those? It was one thing in the novelization, when Qui-Gon seemed to indicate that the ability to retain consciousness after death was through achieving a very specific emotional level and embracing love. This was just a random bunch of tests.

Go fight evil Yoda? Check.
Don't be tempted by idyllic future? Check.
Don't compromise yourself during Sith mind game? Check.

Congratulations! You are now ready to retain your consciousness after death!

I agree with moonjump05 and his comment about Salacious Crumb passing these trials. There was nothing particularly special about these tasks that really made me think that Yoda was more apt than anyone else to pass them. And it makes me wonder if Obi-Wan then had to travel to this planet and do all this stuff too. In which case, did Palpatine and Vader sense Obi-Wan on Moraband and try to mind trick him?

2. What was Sidious trying to do exactly? Yoda could not die in this warped reality. And even if Yoda had sacrificed Anakin to stop Palpatine, that would have been keeping in line with the Jedi way (e.g. Obi-Wan encourages Anakin to sacrifice him to complete the mission of rescuing Palpatine, and he shows no concern for potentially sacrificing Padme to stop Dooku in AOTC). So, it's not like they are really corrupting Yoda, and even if they had, putting the idea in Yoda's head that Sidious can be stopped by killing Anakin is counterproductive.

And then Palpatine tells Dooku that they need more time, after failing to defeat Yoda, in order to plan the downfall of the Jedi.

Huh?

It's quite obvious that from the start the plan was to utilize Order 66. And what we see in ROTS, in which the plot to destroy Yoda was no different than the plot to destroy any other Jedi... Spread them thin and then give the order to the clones... There's no indication that Palpatine needed more time to come up with a special plan to handle Yoda.

Plus I in no way felt that Palpatine would have been stopped if Anakin were killed. Nothing in ROTS or Palpatine's rise to power required Anakin to be alive. The only instance is when Anakin saves Palpatine from Mace. But that situation never would have arose to begin with had Anakin died during TCW and Dooku remained the apprentice.

Oh and "this time we will attack him together," kind of loses its meaning when they tried that the last time (in the Sifo-Dyas episode) and it didn't work it.

 

There's a difference between sacrificing another at their request for your own good, and murdering an unconscious person because of a possible future.

Really, I think this episode was just Yoda going through the Joker's mental torture of Commissioner Gordon in The Killing Joke.

The "tests" weren't training Yoda to keep life after death, they were just preparing him mentally and spiritually for the forthcoming lessons from Qui-Gon.

 

I agree, IG.

From StarWars.com:
"Yoda awakens in the execution chamber. The serene Priestess welcomes him. He has passed this challenge. The Priestess explains that Qui-Gon Jinn will commune with Yoda, and continue to guide his training. Through this study Yoda will achieve enlightenment, spirit, and balance. As the Priestess disappears in a glow of light, Yoda sees the future, including the moment of his death and his own last words."

 

So the Force Priestesses were the Ancient Order of the Whills all but in name. That was really cool, though I'll admit that I was waiting for them to say "Whills" throughout the arc.

 

That was good, Very good. Loved the Pike guy and Dooku's sly grin when he meets Obi and Anakin

The Yoda vision at the end was a little frustrating. There was one REALLY important bit of info in this vision that Yoda completely missed . . . . Skywalker! When Anakin was helping Yoda fight Sidious, the Sith Lord did not stand a chance. In ROTS Yoda deliberately places anakin closer to Palpatine when he suspects he might be Sidious and then buggers off to Kashyyyk ! !

But this is the problem when you are trying to create the middle part of a story when people already know the ending.

It would have been nice to see Ventress in here somewhere, maybe in the happy illusion at the Jedi temple. Maybe Dooku could have found her on Rattataki and turned her back to the light

Still the quality and ideas in this arc were great. It bodes well for Rebels.

 

My only problem was that Palpatine said "ten years ago I was a senator" shouldnt it have been more like 12-13 years ago since he was a senator? I really enjoyed the arc but thought I would learn some great secret about the force and mostly just got a reiteration of a lot of stuff I had heard before.

Have we heard the term "Cosmic Force" before? That might have been new. I loved the whole Dagobah and Qui-Gon part.

 

The Force is more powerful than those technological terrors.

 

Most definitely. The EU, after the prequels, frequently referred to the relationship between the Living Force, the Cosmic Force, and the Unifying Force. These seeds were planted a long time ago.

 

Anakin sees Padme dying, sets out to save her and ends up causing her death. Luke sees his friends suffering and rushes off to help them, which is the very reason they're being made to suffer. Palpatine looks into the future and twists events to create the future he desires, even managing to destroy the Jedi Order and take over the galaxy. Finally, he foresees the end of the rebellion and creates a plan to not only make sure that happens, but also to turn Luke to the Dark Side. In the end, his plan backfires, the trap he sets for the rebels ends up being the opportunity they need to destroy the Death Star and his efforts to turn Luke results in Vader killing him.

Star Wars has always been consistent with the idea that you've just got to let things happen. It doesn't matter what Yoda saw. He had no context for it. He saw flashes of dark things but he has no idea when or where they will happen or even if they will happen at all. Always in motion is the future. What he sees isn't what will happen, it's what could happen. Of course, we know it's what does happen but Yoda doesn't. Heck, we have three different possible deaths for Shaak Ti, two of which were made for ROTS but didn't make the cut and a third exists in a video game that Rebels is likely going to render non-canon. At least we have some context for her death scenes, Yoda has no idea what he saw.

So I don't see any conflict in ROTS. Yoda has seen possible futures but he can't dwell on them. He can only live here and now and take events as they come.

 

Was anyone else reminded, as Yoda entered the Valley of Extinction, of the Tibetan intermediate state, the bardo?

Yoda was tasked with "pass[ing] through without emotion, without attachment." For myself, anyway, it immediately called to my mind my readings the Tibetan Book of the Dead.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bardo
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bardo_Thodol

It wasn't an explicit, exact match, of course, but I very much think the inspiration for the scene could have been drawn from these concepts.

And then during his journey through the valley, Yoda is met with a vision of a very Christian view of Paradise, a life in the Jedi Temple with "no war, only peace and tranquility." A life where Dooku never fell, replete with visions of old friends long gone.

George Lucas has described his religious inclination as that of a "Buddhist Methodist," and I think those leanings really showed through in this particular scene. Perhaps because I was baptized a Methodist and studied Buddhism from an ordained Monk in my twenties...

http://people.hws.edu/yignyen/

I loved it.

 

How come Qui-Gon can't become a force ghost yet Anakin Skywalker and Obi-Wan can?

 

Also why is "Finis Valorum" alive? i thought he was killed in a book set just after TPM? or do Movies/TV outpower the books?

 

I believe Qui-Gon said he wasn't able to complete the training.

Whether this means he was killed before he was able to apply the entirety of the lessons (which is what I think was the implication), or that he had somehow fallen short in some other manner, I don't believe was stated. But I only watched the episodes the one time and may have missed something.

 

He did become a Force Ghost

 

When?

But when does Vader complete the training? Obi-Wan possibly could of but i dont think Vader would have

 

Absolutely. I think the question was about why Jinn wasn't able to visually appear before anyone in the corporeal world.

edit: Okay, maybe not.

 

We are never told in any of the on-screen tales, but in the EU, it is said that Obi-Wan was waiting for Anakin on the other side and was able to help guide Skywalker through. Anakin's unique standing is also cited as a reason.

The scene is depicted in two books:

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/The_Life_and_Legend_of_Obi-Wan_Kenobi
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/The_Rise_and_Fall_of_Darth_Vader

 

Im not going to read the links because i am going to start "The life and legend of Obi-Wan Kenobi" soon but thank you for the links.

 

OK. I think I remember now, was it in the Legacy Novels? I quit those about after the second book but remeber Luke and Ben setting off on some force Odyssey that may have been inspired by the Mortis arc...The terms Living and Unifying I know for sure but Cosmic sounds less familiar,although I always new there must be another part but just didnt know the name of it

also where was yoda supposed to be after Dagobah. The place where it was the "Origin of Life and the Midi Chlorians", was that the Bright Center of the Universe or what? I saw this 3D movie at the NASA Space Center in FL about the hubble telescope. It was narrated by Leonardo Decaprio but was a documentary telling about the telescope and what it has found. They show this one part and say "is this where stars are born?" and that is what that place looked like.

 

Think nothing of it. Happy reading!

 

Mentioned in ROTS that he became one

 

Very well said. I was going to author a reply to the question of Yoda's visions, but you've saved me the effort. Well said, indeed.

 

So I have a question about the whole Sifo Dyas/Tyrannus/creation of the clone army mystery.

Did Dooku have Sifo Dyas killed in order to assume his identity? Because thats what Silman made it sound like when Obi Wan and Anakin tried to rescue him from that Pyke prison. He said something about Dooku wanting to become Sifo Dyas.

But if that's true, why does he go by Tyrannus to the Kaminoans?

If anything, I'm more confused now than I was before the clone wars tried to tie up these loose ends. After Attack of the Clones came out I just assumed Dooku was always the one who created the army from the start but used the identity of a dead Jedi to avoid suspicion.

Can anyone clear this up? Feel free to start from the beginning of the creation of the clones if you want. haha.

Thanks!

 

Some things I'm confused about in "The Lost One" episode:

Who stole the identity of Sifo-Dyas? Tyranus? The Kaminoans know who Tyranus is, though.

When Yoda met with Palpatine, why didn't he ask him to unseal the Sifo-Dyas records?

Edit: LOL. TK421-677 asking the same questions right before me.