The

Discussion in 'Archive: The Senate Floor' started by Lord Bane, Oct 28, 2001.

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  1. Ender Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 12, 1998
    star 6
    It's not the website that I got it off of if that's what you mean?

    A lot of the articles do come from the newsgroup as it is full of biologists.

    You can access the talk.origins newsgroup via your ISP.
  2. TrainingForUtopia Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Mar 15, 2001
    star 4
    Okay, I feel dumb.

    How do I do that?
  3. Ender Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 12, 1998
    star 6
    Open Outlook Express and click on subscribe to newsgroups.

    You may have to supply a newsgroup server address(example: msnews.microsoft.com) to access them. Just send an e-mail to your ISP's tech support and they should supply you with one.
  4. cydonia Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 6, 2001
    star 5
    "If he was a just and loving god he'd judge you based upon how you treat others not by what you believe." -Ender

    Yup. Treating people decently and trying to be a good person is easy for me. Giving my brain away isn't. It's only fair i get to keep my own brain for little old me. Nobody can have it. Mine!
  5. Palpazzar Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 11, 2000
    star 4
    Ah, I gave my brain away to the 1.6 billion Chirstians rather than the 4.5 billion non Christians.

    Man, I am such a conformist!

    BTW, I would really argue not all of those 1.6 are what they claim. But that is a different debate.
  6. cydonia Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 6, 2001
    star 5
    I don't want to give my brain to anyone! It's all mine! They can't have it!
  7. Palpazzar Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 11, 2000
    star 4
    Cydonia, do you believe in giving presents to loved ones on Christmas, eating turkey at Thanksgiving, stopping at red lights, and people have the right to live free?
  8. cydonia Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 6, 2001
    star 5
    Well, aside from stopping at red lights, yes. Point? I'm sure you have a nice zinger waiting for me...
  9. Ender Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 12, 1998
    star 6
    I think he's about to call you Satan Claus.
  10. cydonia Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 6, 2001
    star 5
    Uh oh. Didn't know the church lady was after me...
  11. audio_karate Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 23, 2001
    star 3
    IellaWessiriNRI wrote:

    You can either repent of your sin and ask for righteousness through Christ's blood and spend eternity with Him in heaven, or you can reject Him and His gift and go to hell.

    Gee. And that doesn't sound like coercion to some of you? [face_plain]

    In any case, if the "sin" you're referring to is the "original sin," IellaWessiriNRI, then let me just say that this is yet another reason why I "reject Him and His gift and [am going] to Hell":

    I will not accept a religion or system of belief whose premise is that we are all guilty of some alleged sin that took place long, long ago. Is that not akin to blaming the descendants of slaveholders for slavery? Please, share your thoughts.

    It's 6:20am & I am off to work and classes. Have a splendid day, everyone! :)

    Edit: When I've wronged someone, apologizing and asking for their forgiveness, rather than the forgiveness of God, is how I "repent."



  12. Obi Wan Bergkamp Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Oct 19, 1998
    star 3
    You can either repent of your sin and ask for righteousness through Christ's blood and spend eternity with Him in heaven, or you can reject Him and His gift and go to hell.

    So, in other words, Jeffery Dahmer is in heaven and Muhatma Ghandi and Buddah are in hell
  13. Lord Bane Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    May 26, 1999
    star 5
    Actually, Ghandi read Christian texts and was considered by some to believe in the ideas within.

  14. Master_Ben Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 3, 2001
    star 4
    What always strikes me as funny is that people can go on about "not believing in anything". If your an Atheist you BELIEVE in yourself. If your a Buddhist then you BELIEVE in Buddha. There is no such thing as "no religious belief". You always obey something whether its your conscience or your desires. That leads to the question of Sin. No one is perfect. I think that probably everyone believes that. Now my question for you non-Christians is this:

    Do you think you DESERVE to live forever in Paradise?

    Even if you don't believe in Heaven just imagine that you do. Do you DESERVE eternal life?
  15. Palpazzar Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 11, 2000
    star 4
    Cy, the point is by following those traditions, you are giving your brain to the culture.

    Just kinda showing how nobody keeps their brain all to themsleves.

    And yes, lots of people see that red lights are merely suggestions :)
  16. cydonia Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 6, 2001
    star 5
    I know what you mean palpazzar.

    MasterBen, answer this. Now i know you can't be 100% sure, but try.

    Do you honestly believe you deserve ice cream?
  17. Already-Turned Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jun 13, 2001
    star 3
    If your an Atheist you BELIEVE in yourself??

    What the?

    Explain? I "believe" that the scientificly accepted explanation for the existance of life, the universe and everything. I "believe" in many of the principles and theories set out by modern economics.
    I "believe" in democracy and freedom of speech.

    But there is a difference in these "beliefs" and the faith required to beleive in a god.

    My beliefs are based on logic, on observance, on experiece, on skepticism and a requirement for proof. I take the questions and seek to find logical solutions without a prior bias towards any previous creeds or ideals.
    Faith is not.


    I think a lot of people shy away from this fairly cold perspective on life. I have mates who cannot accept the idea that they will die, they cannot accept the idea that death is it, and several have then turned to religion as a result. They fear death, so they need a happy little load of bollocks about "eternal life" to avoid facing the end of their existance. They quite explicitly admit that they would accept any explanation or theory in order to have a sense of immortality.

    Those theists out there should ask themselves if perhaps this fear is a reason or justification for their faith.
  18. cydonia Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 6, 2001
    star 5
    I think that's a large portion of it; religion thru fear. Not so much fear of death, because once you die, and there's nothing there (if)...so what? It's not like you're going to know then. You're dead! But i think it's, "eternal fire", hell. That's a scary thing. Alot of people become relgious so they can stay on the Boss's good side "Just in Case" they may be fired. It also gives many people an identity, a way to set themselves above others. Everyone has something they use for that, some Christians think it's being saved, sometimes i think it's because i'm so much more cultured and refined than many people.

    But you don't have to be a "theist" to believe in something larger, or something large in addition to yourself. What if we are all god? Then you wouldn't believe you even existed? No one can prove anything, but the burden of proof (strangely) really does lay on the shoulders of hard core relgious folks. At least as an agnostic or something, you're going by your own perceptions, emotions, and instincts, rather than "You better believe this way or it's hell for you, It's in a book right here."
  19. IellaWessiriNRI Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 3, 2001
    star 4
    audio_karate:

    I will not accept a religion or system of belief whose premise is that we are all guilty of some alleged sin that took place long, long ago. Is that not akin to blaming the descendants of slaveholders for slavery? Please, share your thoughts.

    Actually... the concept of original sin is somewhat misleading. It's basically the idea that a sin nature was passed on because of Adam's original sin. We're not paying for Adam's sin, Adam's sin makes us susceptible to sin.

    When I've wronged someone, apologizing and asking for their forgiveness, rather than the forgiveness of God, is how I "repent."

    I definitely ask the forgiveness of the person I've wronged... but my sin wasn't against them only. It was also a sin against the standard that God set, so I ask His forgiveness for breaking His law.

  20. Force of Nature Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 12, 1999
    star 3
    Firstly, to answer the initial question ...

    No, I don't believe in the existence of 'God'. Until I was about five or six, I had him pigeon-holed along with 'Santa Claus' and the 'Tooth Fairy' in my collection of evidence that adults like to think - or at least pretend - that children are halfwits. (Strange behaviour, IMO, in a species which brazenly describes itself as sapient, but never mind. :)) To say I was shocked to discover that 'God' belonged in another collection entirely would be an understatement; let's leave it at that.

    There is, however, something I would like to ask about a motif which I've encountered over and over in discussions such as this. Could someone, please, explain the religious significance of "purpose"? For example, someone might say that an atheist's life lacks purpose; what does that mean?
  21. IellaWessiriNRI Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 3, 2001
    star 4
    For example, someone might say that an atheist's life lacks purpose; what does that mean?

    An atheist's life doesn't lack purpose. The atheist shows that he or she believes his or her life has no purpose because of what he or she believes. If there is no God, and we are all just the result of an explosion of matter, then you are simply a collection of complex molecules. And your purpose is... basically to live until you die. So what's the purpose of living? Why can't you go around killing random people? It doesn't make a difference, does it?
  22. cydonia Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 6, 2001
    star 5
    God doesn't have to give you a purpose. Give yourself a purpose. "The mystery of life is not a problem to be solved, but a reality to be experienced." I forget who said that, but i agree.
  23. Darth Geist Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 23, 1999
    star 5
    "It doesn't make a difference, does it?"

    Ah, but if one's life on Earth is all one has, then there's nothing more precious--and if one leaves no permanent mark other than one's deeds here, it's much better to be remembered for the good things you've done than the bad.
  24. Palpazzar Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 11, 2000
    star 4
    Well, if all you have is what is on earth, then leaving a mark for people to remember you would be important.

    The only problem with that is people will remember Hitler long after Clara Barton is forgotten.

    So basically if earth is all there is, Hitler got a great deal. He got to do what he loved, will be remembered for it, still has people following him, and he didn't have to pay for his crimes.
  25. Darth Geist Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 23, 1999
    star 5
    He also took millions of lives--and, with life being as precious as it is to an athiest, the damage he's done blackens his name like nothing else could. He'll be remembered, all right, but in an absolutely negative way--exactly the opposite of what many atheists make their goal out to be.

    What we can all learn from an atheist, whether or not you share their religious beliefs, is that if you leave the earth a little better than it was when you arrived, everyone wins.
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