Index Theed Palace, v. 2: Naboo Index/Discussion Thread.

Discussion in 'Fan Fiction and Writing Resource' started by Pandora, Jan 24, 2006.

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  1. leia_naberrie Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 10, 2002
    star 4
  2. Pandora Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 13, 2005
    star 3
    Dorme was actually in Padme's service during her tenure as Queen. According to the Episode 2 visual dictionary, she becamse Queen Amidala's handmaiden, shortly after the Battle of Naboo. So she was actually part of the Big Six.

    I did not know that, but then, I just realized that I've never actually read the Episode II visual dictionary. Don't know if it's still easily available, and when it came out, well, I was in grad. school, totally broke, and with no interest in the Star Wars prequels, so I wouldn't have looked for it.

    I did look up all the bios I could find for Dormé online, but none of them mentioned that she was with Amidala during her time as Queen. I think what I *have* read is that she became her handmaiden after the Battle of Naboo, and left sometime after the Battle of Geonosis, because really, that's all you can tell. As the wookieepedia article says, rather ominously, "Her fate remains unknown."

    So, if that's the case, she would have served Amidala for possibly eight or more years. I do think if she did sign on while Amidala was Queen, it would have been to replace a handmaiden who, for whatever reason, was leaving. I have always thought that most of the handmaidens do not stay with her for very long, and I suspect that the TPM handmaidens mostly were gone even by the end of her first term. But that's just me.

    Giggling like a school-girl? I really need to watch that scene again. I thought that Padme was worried, looked back at the others (Dorme included) and that was why Anakin tried to lighten the tension.

    Padmé is clearly worried there, and she admits as much to Anakin. I think her going into hiding, and why, didn't seem *real* until that point, when she was actually doing it. Typho and Dormé are staying behind, and there's nothing she can do for them now. She just has to wait.

    About the hug:

    Since I can't see it on my brother's video, I don't know if it was weak or not. However, I was just thinking that even if it is, that might not mean very much. Some people are not very good at being physically affectionate, and I would guess Padmé, and maybe Dormé, are among them. They seem to come from a fairly formal and traditional (well, certainly traditional) culture, where there isn't a lot of touchy-feelyness. Or maybe I just see this because I'm an American of Northern European descent, and we like our personal space. Let's just say that for American white girls, the stiff, awkward, yet well-meaning hug, is common in, well, good-bye scenes.
  3. Knight-Ander Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 19, 2002
    star 4
    You're going to have to give me specifics like a page number on that one, l_n, because I don't see it mentioned in the AOTC Visual Dictionary that I have. :confused:
  4. Pandora Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 13, 2005
    star 3
    A few things I missed:

    Obischick, if you do write about the Rabé/Jamillia connection, I would be happy to see it for the challenge. No pressure, of course.

    No responses yet, but it isn't as though there's a deadline. I don't mean to pressure anyone, but I'm going to be honest here: The results of this challenge will determine how I will do challenges in the future, or even if I will have them at all.

    --

    And it's time for a new topic. We'll be discussing:

    Pooja Naberrie

    She is Padmé's cute little niece in the cut scenes of AOTC, and then the funeral scene in ROTS. She goes on to follow in her aunt's footsteps to the senate in the EU, where she must have known her cousin Leia. Though neither of them, of course, know they're related.

    And I do believe that as a child, she wanted to be an astromech droid when she grew up. See, someone appreciates R2.

    Any thoughts?
  5. Obischick Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 25, 2001
    star 4
    *flexes wrists as well* As long as it's not Jude Watson...

    But then I suppose I could always ignore whatever was written if I didn't like that. I do that with the rest of the EU anyways. :p I guess just the acknowledgement of having a Handmaiden book/series/honorable mention in a book would be nice.

    I do get the feeling, still, that she only signed on when Padmé was a senator, partly because the senatorial handmaiden position seems to be different from that of the royal handmaidens. I think the official site itself says that they are more like bodyguards than a de facto court.

    I get that feeling too. I don't know how or why I get that feeling, but it's almost like they are still so...it's probably the "milady" thing, actually, for me at least. Even when Cordé's dying, it's still, "I'm sorry milady." Not Padmé not Amidala. Milady.

    As for the hug, I guess I just come from a really huggy family. We hug a lot, and for no reason and really hard. I think my grandma thinks it is her personal mission to squeeze the life out of everyone she gives a hug too. :p

    And if she hugs her sister like that after almost being murdered, twice and not seeing her for who knows how long, then... well, I don't know what then, but it just doesn't seem very sincerly affectionate to me. Perhaps people are afraid of hugging Natalie too tight because she might break in two! [face_mischief]

    But if it came down to a canon explination, I would go with Pandora26's. The Naboo don't really seem to be a touchy-feeling emotionally out there kind of people. Much more reserved and calm.

    I just realized that I've never actually read the Episode II visual dictionary. Don't know if it's still easily available, and when it came out, well, I was in grad. school, totally broke, and with no interest in the Star Wars prequels, so I wouldn't have looked for it.

    Visual dictionary is pretty readily available. They're pretty interesting, and have some nice details in them, especially in the EP I & II dictionaries, about Naboo and the Jedi. The EP III one has a bunch of things about the clone troopers, which I found kind of boring, but I bet some people don't :p I actually read somewhere that they are going to redo the Visual dictionaries, but I can't remember where or when they are coming out, so I may be hallucinating, which happens on occasion.

    leia_naberrie, I must admit I never saw that part in the visual dictionary. But I do read fast and sometimes miss things... a lot of things sometimes. Page number?

    I plan on getting to that challenge, Pandora, don't you worry about that. ;) :D That and JediPadmé are high on my list of things to write.

    Pooja Naberrie

    I really like the idea of Pooja going on to be an Imperial Senator for Naboo, following in Padmé's footsteps so to speak. I wonder how Sola must have felt about that, and Jobal and Ruwee for that matter. I wonder if there was a lot of family tension over the matter of Pooja going into politics after what it sort of did to Padmé's life.

    I imagine it would have been hard for any and all politicians after Padmé died. She left such a profound and almost untouchable legacy and yardstick for all Naboo to measure their politicians up against. It must have been incredible hard.

    I love the idea that Pooja and Leia would have known each other in the senate, and gotten along. :) That just makes my day. Too bad that they must have been unaware of their connection. I would have liked them, after RotJ to realize their connection, and perhaps lead Leia and Luke to Sola, who could tell them about their mother. That would be a fun fanfic... *eyes glaze over... bunnies attack on all sides*

    I am so doomed.

    ~Obischick~[face_peace]

    ps. AngelQueen wrote a really excellent story about Pooja in the Senate in/around the ANH era. Rebel Choice
  6. leia_naberrie Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 10, 2002
    star 4
    Sorry - that was a mistake on my part. I went back to the TFN's unofficial encyclopaedia where I had got that information. It either came from the AotC Novelization or the Star Wars Insider Edition 61. I checked on wookiepedia for that edition and all they had was the cover page. It did advertise an article called 'Heroic Handmaidens' (subtitled 'Rose Bryne' and 'Veronica S...') so I'm guessing that that's where that specific information originates from. Anyone who has hyperspace can check it out.

    Concerning the Hug, *shrugs* I guess we're all going to agree to disagree on that one. It seemed pretty affectionate to me and I tend to have a balanced view on PDA - my mom and my dad's family are averse to it while my dad and my mom's family are very expressive. I didn't expect Padme to kiss Dorme goodbye or anything like that. :p




    Pooja Naberrie.


    Sweet kid. Not much to know, really.

    edit - I just realized that I just realized that the book in question is not a Lucasbook publication. :eek:

  7. Pandora Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 13, 2005
    star 3
    According to her wookieepedia entry, "Pooja" is the Hindu word for prayer. I just thought that was interesting.

    Yes, if you go by Pooja's brief appearance in AOTC, and a cut scene at that, there isn't much to know. But I do think that the Naberries are the closest we see in the movies of what an ordinary Naboo family might be like-- And what ordinary Naboo citizens, who do not lead severe, selfless, duty filled lives, might be like.

    I was thinking the discussion would focus more on the adult life the EU gave Pooja, as well as speculation on her childhood.

    I know that she appears as a senator in a Lucasarts game. I'll have to check if her entry lists the title. There is a screenshot of her there, but I don't know what she actually does in the game. Has anyone played it?

    Here's a few things I've thought on:

    Pooja's childhood. From that scene in AOTC, we know that, unlike their aunt, Pooja and her sister are allowed to just be kids, running around and playing with patient astromechs. But Pooja's quite little there. Maybe that changed. After all, she went on to become a senator at (at least, according to wookieepedia) twenty. So, what changed? Did she get pushed into politics, maybe by the ambitious great-grandmother, Winama, with the added bonus of wanting to be like her dead aunt?

    And: Why is Pooja the one who becomes a senator, instead of her older sister Ryoo? I think it's going back to the fairy tale theme we see with Padmé & Sola: The youngest daughter is the one who is exceptional. The youngest is the most beautiful, the most clever, the most brave. In fairy tales, the youngest always wins. (I'm an eldest. Can you tell?)

    Obischick, thanks for mentioning "Rebel Choice." There were some pretty good fanfictions a while back speculating on who Pooja might have been as a adult. I think it's easy, too easy, to assume she would be just like Padmé (only without the secret marriage and secret baby). She lives in a very different time, and well, she is a different person.

    I imagine it would have been hard for any and all politicians after Padmé died. She left such a profound and almost untouchable legacy and yardstick for all Naboo to measure their politicians up against. It must have been incredible hard.

    That's true, and unavoidable in either writing fanfic, or thinking, about the post ROTS period. I do wonder how long her influence would have been so immediate, before her memory started to fade away into history. Probably at least as long as her contemporaries were alive. Interesting, as I think, in a way, she was venerated for simply dealing with circumstances beyond her control. If it hadn't been for the Trade Federation invasion, I wonder if she would have become just another girl genius queen.

    But she was venerated, and that's a hard legacy for anyone else to live with. I think "Rebel Choice" portrayed honestly how Pooja might have felt about this at times. She lives in her aunt's shadow, but I wonder: Did she learn from her aunt's mistakes? Or did she repeat some of them?

    I'm not sure, however, that Pooja would have resembled Padmé. I don't like it when fanfics say she does, because I think it's just because she's a senator like her aunt, so they think she must look like her too. I can get a decent idea in ROTS of what she might look as an adult, and I see her as looking quite different. I think of the two nieces, it would be Ryoo who might somewhat look like Padmé.


    ETA:

    The game Pooja appears in is Star Wars Galaxies.
  8. Knight-Ander Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 19, 2002
    star 4
    Sure, I have that issue somewhere, I just haven't a clue as to where! :(

    *rummage, rummage, rummage*

    Ah, ha! Found it! :D

    *reads, reads, reads*

    Nope, no mention of Dormé's career before AOTC, the articles just focus on Rose and Veronica.

    Well, since the Wookiepedia is, in my opinion, the most complete SW-pedia of its kind, I'm sticking with what it has to say about Dormé's mysterious fate. ;)
  9. Pandora Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 13, 2005
    star 3
    A few things I missed:

    Like Knight-Ander, I think I'll go with what wookieepedia says about Dormé's "mysterious" fate. I oftentimes take the entries there with a grain of salt, since anyone can edit them, but this makes common sense to me.

    Maybe she was with Amidala when she was Queen. Maybe not. I think that ultimately, until there is something definitive, we can make up our own minds about that.

    Obischick, I know what you mean about just the existence of a handmaiden book/honorable mention being nice. Even if the book itself wasn't all it could be (or was written by cough, Jude Watson, cough).

    Realistically? We'll be lucky to get that honorable mention, and in a way, we already have it, since a handmaiden gets just that in Sean Stewart's EU novel Dark Rendezvous. But I'm practicing my Jedi mind tricks, because you never do know...

    I plan on getting to that challenge, Pandora, don't you worry about that. That and JediPadmé are high on my list of things to write.

    No worries. I understand how busy everyone can be.

    I will try to write something myself, if I can come up with a manageable idea. (Read: Not "Ashmé," the fanfic that ate Theed. It was originally supposed to be a lil ten page or so short story. Ha, ha.)


    --

    Since I may be leaving on vacation soon, I'm going to go ahead and change topics. I do intend to slow down on topic switching here, so this will be up for a while.

    We'll be discussing:

    Queen Apailana

    While she appears for only a few minutes (if that) in ROTS, she has quite a story in the EU. Here's her wookieepedia entry for more information.

    I see that the game she appears is in called Battlefront II. I'm not a gamer, to put it mildly, so I haven't seen the game firsthand. If anyone has, I would appreciate hearing your impressions of her portrayal.

    I'll start things out with a (hopefully) fairly broad question:

    What do you think of the fate the EU gives Apailana? Does it work for you? If not, how would you change it?

    What can you tell about Apailana from her fate? What kind of a person do you think she was?
  10. CodyMonKenobi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 29, 2001
    star 4
    Well I didn't read what her fate is, but if you look throughout history when dictators take over they generally set up palaces all over their territories. I would see Palpatine doing this as well, and the Theed palace would be a likely spot since it was his home. Seeing how she was the Queen when the Empire rose she would probably be discarded and rule of the planet would be given to someone loyal to Palpatine.
  11. Pandora Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 13, 2005
    star 3
    Seeing how she was the Queen when the Empire rose she would probably be discarded and rule of the planet would be given to someone loyal to Palpatine.

    That's actually pretty much what happened. There were rumors that Apailana was harboring Jedi who had survived Order 66, and Vader sent the 501st to Theed to execute her for treason. After her death, the Empire installed Kylantha, a puppet monarch who was, at least outwardly, loyal to the Emperor.

    Still, according to the wookieepedia article I linked to above, Kylantha didn't buy the Empire's excuse for Apailana's death, so I've never gotten the impression she was really all *that* loyal. She was just better at faking it than Apailana ever tried to be.

    I do wonder: If Apailana was not going along with the Empire from the very beginning, why did they wait eight years to actually go after her? Yes, Apailana serves both her terms as Queen before her death, according to the wookieepedia. I don't know... It's just too neat, too convenient, in my opinion.

    And as far as I know, Palpatine never took over Theed Palace. I'm sure he could have, so he must not have been interested. Apparently, according to several games, such as Star Wars Galaxies, he kept at least one retreat on Naboo. But then, he never seemed to have much fondness or connection to his homeworld.
  12. Pandora Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 13, 2005
    star 3
    A few thoughts on Apailana:

    When I first heard of Apailana, before ROTS came out, and before her name was even officially announced, it was a picture on the RHS site. It showed a young girl, perhaps thirteen or so, who reminded me of the child-queen Amidala was in TPM. She was wearing a gown similar to one Amidala wore in that movie, showing a bit more about the strict traditions of the royalty of that planet.

    Her bio note on another site, Finest, said that she was one of Naboo's best and brightest, "a tactical and political genius, and only thirteen years old." At that time, it was unknown how much of a part she would actually play in the movie.

    But already, I could see people making comparisons to Amidala, as Apailana was clearly another political girl genius in her mode. But then, it was indicated that Amidala was exceptional, but not, to put it bluntly, unheard of, in her culture. I could see Apailana doing the requisite two terms as Queen, and then going on to become a senator. Just like Amidala.

    As it turned out, she was there for only about two minutes, as she followed Padmé's casket with two of her handmaidens. And the EU would send Apailana on a different path, that ended not with her being appointed to the senate, but her death.

    So what do we know about her?

    Not much. We know that she was, predictably, Princess of Theed when Amidala encouraged her to run against Jamillia, who had, voluntarily or not, abdicated the throne. At the time, Apailana was only twelve years old. While she did make the call for elections, it's unclear whether she planned to run herself until Amidala convinced her. And she was indeed victorious, and probably she looked suitably naive and innocent next to the older, more world weary Jamillia.

    Apailana would live to see that Jamilla had been right. But like Amidala, she remained too much of an idealist. The galaxy had changed, but she had not. While she did not invade Padmé's privacy, even after death (possibly out of respect for her family), she did not believe the official cause of death. She did not even change the names on the government buildings in Theed. She made it clear, too clear, that she supported the Jedi still.

    This was apparently clear from the early days of the Empire, yet the EU makes sure to give Apailana her two, American length, terms. I have to admit that I don't quite buy that. The Empire *knew* she wasn't playing nice with them, and even if all they had was rumors, that would be enough to give them an excuse to go after her. I don't believe it would have taken them eight years to do so, either.

    When they did, Apailana was defended by the hiding Jedi and the Royal Guards. (Typically, there is no mention of her handmaidens. Perhaps they are included amongst the guards?) All of the Jedi were killed, but some of the guards survived afer they surrendered, and were taken prisoner by the Empire.

    The Empire covered up Apailana's death, just as it had Amidala's. And once again, the successor, this time, the outwardly loyal Kylantha, did not believe it, and started her own investigation, though nothing apparently came of it. If she served her eight years, Apailana would have been twenty when she died.

    Other than that? Apailana does appear in the children's book Death on Naboo, but since I haven't read it, or even been able to find a copy, I don't know how she is portrayed.

    --

    *tumbleweeds drift by.*

    Yes, things have been slow here, but I really can't complain. This is a minor character discussion, and it simply cannot compete with, say, the Obi-Wan or Anakin threads. I do appreciate everyone's contributions so far. I apologize if there's anything I've not replied to. I mean to, but sometimes things can get lost in the shuffle.

    I'll leave this topic up, but if anyone wants to suggest a future topic (and it needn't be a character) feel free to go ahead. At this point, I want to hear what people would like from this thread.
  13. Obischick Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 25, 2001
    star 4
    Pooja

    I tried to play Star Wars Galaxies once upon a time, and it bored me to tears. My boyfriend became ooooobbbbsessed with it. But as far as I know, Pooja was just another person in Galaxies.

    Did she get pushed into politics, maybe by the ambitious great-grandmother, Winama, with the added bonus of wanting to be like her dead aunt?

    Well, I'm pretty sure it wasn't Winama, seeing as in the Queen Amidala EP I Journal, Padmé writes that Winama died a few months before/after she was elected. So prolly not her ;) I'm not sure what could have pushed Pooja into politics... it seems to me that *because* Padmé died a mysterious death, the Naberries would want to stay as far away from politics as they could.

    HOWEVER, one has to take into account the Naboo way of life, which seems to center around politics as an honorable way of life, almost an art form. Perhaps a passion for helping people pushed Pooja into public service. It seems that's the way Padmé got into politics as well. History repeating itself? It seems that the peacable Naboo would regard wanting to help people as almost their duty, since they have it so good in life :p The have a high standard of living overall, a very peacable, non-confrontational society, almost a secretive society, what with the way that Padmé's death and pregnancy wasn't investigated at all. Helping people may be a way to pass the time almost.

    Not to rant too much or be too stereotypical, but if you look at American society, there's a reason charities cater to the rich and or famous, to get more $$ for their funding. The Naboo, though small, are very well off.

    And I think I just repeated myself about five times there, so please forgive me :p

    I'm not sure, however, that Pooja would have resembled Padmé. I don't like it when fanfics say she does, because I think it's just because she's a senator like her aunt, so they think she must look like her too. I can get a decent idea in ROTS of what she might look as an adult, and I see her as looking quite different. I think of the two nieces, it would be Ryoo who might somewhat look like Padmé.

    I definitely agree. There is nothing wrong with making Pooja look massively different that Padmé. I'm almost sick of Star Wars chicks with long dark brown hair and brown eyes. ;) It was nice to see little Pooja with curly blonde-brown hair and perhaps blue eyes. Girls can have blue eyes too George!!

    (Read: Not "Ashmé," the fanfic that ate Theed. It was originally supposed to be a lil ten page or so short story. Ha, ha.)

    Sorry, had to quote this because it made me laugh so hard! I got a really funny mental image of a fanfic attempting to eat Theed!! [face_thinking]


    Queen Apailana

    mmmmkkay. Battlefront II: Have not yet played it. Heard it was good, and have seen the first Battlefront in action, looks like fun. Knowing my boyfriend and his younger brother, they will get it and play the heck out of it soon, so I may have more to say on this later.

    What do you think of the fate the EU gives Apailana? Does it work for you? If not, how would you change it?

    Hmmmm. The problem I have with the EU is that sometimes it feels a little bit goody-goody-two-shoes. I like that idea that Apailana would harbor Jedi, but I think that the Empire would not take till (convienently enough) the end of her second term to do something about it. I think that if your going to make her character defiant, then the Empire is going to have to take her out sooner. They cannot allow defiant leaders, subtle or not. I definitely would have made the Empire take her out sooner than they do, and then I would ban Jude Watson from writing again. That woman makes me crazy sometimes.

    I haven't read Death on Naboo or whatever it's called, but from the brief descriptions I've seen, I'm not too thrilled. And I've heard there's not a lot of Handmaiden action in it. How on earth could that be? It goes against everything we've heard/
  14. Alishu06 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 29, 2005
    star 4
    Okay about the challenge...When is the due date? I have mine written but I have to type it. If the due date is soon then I'll put it at the top of my fanfic list.
  15. Obischick Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 25, 2001
    star 4
    I don't believe there is a due date for this challenge...

    But here's mine: :p It was getting kind of long, so I decided to break it into two parts. Part one is up now, and part two should be done soon (hopefully!)

    Duty

    It's a Pre-AotC short story. A handmaiden to Queen Jamilla now, it is Rabé?s duty to go to her former Queen and ask her to be Senator.

    Enjoy!

    ~Obischick~ [face_peace]
  16. Pandora Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 13, 2005
    star 3
    Okay about the challenge...When is the due date? I have mine written but I have to type it. If the due date is soon then I'll put it at the top of my fanfic list.

    Obischick is correct, Alishu06. There is no deadline for the challenge.

    I should reply at further length tomorrow. I've been offline for the past ten or so days while on a too long, and annoying, trip, so I have a bit to catch up on.
  17. Knight-Ander Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 19, 2002
    star 4
    I touch slightly on Queen Apailana in my new fic, Panaka's Promotion.

    I woke up with it in my head and just had to get it out! :p
  18. Pandora Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 13, 2005
    star 3
    Updated the index.

    Over the last few months, I've noticed an increase in stories about Typho, or Panaka. Hmmm. I think people are trying to reconcile Panaka's uber loyalty in TPM with the fact that the EU, at least, I think it is the EU, has him tattling to Palpatine about Padmé & Anakin (which, for the record, I've never bought, but that is for another time).

    --

    I must apologize for my absence, and for not responding to a few things sooner, but, as I mentioned in my earlier post, I was unable to get online during my recent trip.

    I'll see if I can make up for it.


    Pooja

    You know, I found out Winama died around the time of Padmé's election in a Wookieepedia article AFTER I wrote that. Ah, well. I had just never run into that bit before, and I don't even try to be up on the EU. Still, I think that Pooja probably, like her aunt, had a mentor to help guide her into politics, and assist her once she had started along that path. If not her (dead) great-grandmother, perhaps someone else close to her.

    Certainly, I don't think it would have been her mother or maternal grandmother. The Naberries had every reason to not want to get involved with galatic or even planet wide politics, but on the other hand, if that was what Pooja wanted, I think they would have accepted that.

    Yes, Pooja may have entered politics because she wanted to help others. Or perhaps she wanted to emulate her much admired aunt. Or perhaps both, and other reasons besides.

    There does seem to be a big focus in what we see of Naboo culture on duty, and serving those less fortunate. But I was talking with my brother recently, and he pointed out that we actually know almost nothing about Naboo's culture. We don't know how representative the characters we see are of most Naboo. I think that duty is important to them, but most people, including politicians, don't take it to quite the same level as Padmé, who devoted her entire identity to service, and the end result was that she lacked, in most ways, any sense of self. Really, it's about balance, between thinking of others and thinking of one's self. Padmé lacked that.

    As my brother says, "Anakin had his obsession. She had hers."

    Pooja would be in her aunt's shadow, always. I think she would want to help people, but she would never be able to be as idealistic, as trusting, as Padmé was.


    Queen Apailana

    You made some good points, Obischick. In fact, I can see Apailana's fate in a new way now.

    You're right -- Apailana does come across as naive, in a sort of (dog help me) spunky, foot stamping way. Supposedly, she refuses to change the wording on the buildings in a subtle way, but let's face it, the end result is not subtle. The names aren't changed. I can't believe I'm saying this, but I think this is partly because Apailana is so young. She hasn't yet learnt to compromise. She knows, in an utter, fervant way, what is right.

    And she dies for it.

    She may have been an acceptable ruler before the Empire, but once the galaxy changed, she needed to adapt. She needed to think of protecting her world, above all else. Most importantly, she needed to pick her battles. I suppose she did--she decided to fight them all.

    I completely, totally agree that the Empire would not have waited the convenient seven (since she had been Queen for a year when the Republic turned to the Empire) years to go after her. But I'm also not surprised that the EU wimped out. It wants us to think the Empire is big and bad, but it hasn't the whatever (the guts?) to show it. And while I wish I could be surprised the handmaidens are nonexistant in "Death on Naboo," I'm not. Typical. Still, I shall ignore the EU, because I *know* they were there, and protecting her. See, I can't be fooled!

    Another thing:

    We know that, in ROTS, Padmé believed that Apailana would most likely not allow her to serve as senator if it was known she was pregnant. My brothers think, though, that it's hard to tell if this is truly the case, or whether Padmé just thinks it
  19. Pandora Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 13, 2005
    star 3
    Time for a new topic.

    We will continue with character based discussions. I suppose at some point we'll run out of characters with enough screen time, or EU time, to talk about. But not yet. I do hope to start examining other, more broad, aspects of Naboo culture, soon. Otherwise, we'll continue as we have been.

    We'll be discussing:

    Cordé

    She is Amidala's decoy in AOTC, and she fulfills her duty when she dies, instead of her mistress, when the ship is bombed. Still, her final words are an apology to her mistress.

    I've already written at some length about Cordé, both in posts buried down deep in my history, and a fanfic. So I'm going to stay back more than I have on previous discussions, to see what other people have to say.

    So, any thoughts?
  20. Pandora Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 13, 2005
    star 3
    If double posting is bad, triple posting is worse, but I wanted to share something I just found on the regular wikipedia, regarding Apailana's assassination.

    While I take the entries there with a large lump of salt at times (after all, anyone can edit them), this is the only thing I have yet seen that mentions Apailana's handmaidens. The relevant part is bolded.


    Word reached the Empire of the hidden Jedi and in 12 BBY Darth Vader deployed the 501st Legion to Naboo to kill all the hidden on the planet and Queen Apailana as well. However, Apailana was well prepared and her Security was able to put up a substantial fight against the troop. The Queen and the Jedi were rescued although many Jedi died in the battle. The remaining few made a plan to get Apailana out of Theed. Apailana, along with her handmaidens and a handful of guards, made her way to the Queen's Royal Transport. Unfortunately, as she passed through a hallway in the Palace, Imperial commandos ambushed her convoy. The Queen and her companions were executed.

    Now, I don't know what the source for this is, but alas, it does affirm what I assumed happened to her handmaidens. That if the Queen was dead, so were they.

    Of course, I struck back and had one of them survive in my fanfic "Ashmé." Because I could. Hey, that's what fanfic is there for.
  21. leia_naberrie Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 10, 2002
    star 4
    Guess I was right after all. Although when you think of it, I'd be very surprised if the good handmaidens had not down fighting for their Queen. :) There was a story on the boards a while back based in the post-RotS era that shed some light on the 'purging' of Naboo. The writer added a clever twist - a brave handmaiden died in the Queen's stead, dressed in her costum. So while the Empire believed that the Queen had died, Apailaina escaped.


    Another thing:

    We know that, in ROTS, Padmé believed that Apailana would most likely not allow her to serve as senator if it was known she was pregnant. My brothers think, though, that it's hard to tell if this is truly the case, or whether Padmé just thinks it is. People who keep secrets do tend to be a bit paranoid at times. We don't know enough about Naboo culture to know that they are really, truly, that backwards.


    [face_thinking] That's a good point. I'm inclined to give Padmé the benefit of the doubt since she actually was Queen at a time and knows how the system works. The Naboo are an idealistic people - with their child monarchs, and culture of art and beauty. There's something celibate about their public servants - Palpatine, the oldest we've seen, never had a family. And from all indications in the movies, it seemed that Padmé could not be in public service and have a family. It doesn't necessarily have anything to do with whether or not the child had a father.



    Cordé

    I have to admit that I found her character quite fascinating for a while. Her dying words are so cryptic: 'I failed you, my lady.' But she died in the process of defending Padmé.... :eek: It hatched a couple of plot bunnies, I assure you, but none of them ever reached fruition. One of them was the idea that Cordé might have had an inkling of the assassination plot but she failed to do something about it...
  22. Pandora Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 13, 2005
    star 3
    A few responses:

    Yes, that article only confirmed what I had already guessed would have happened to Apailana's handmaidens. From the sound of it, they went down not just fighting for their Queen, but with her. Like Rabé and Eirtaé in TPM, they fought at their mistress's side. Though I doubt the skirmish could have lasted very long.

    You made some interesting points about Padmé's lines in ROTS, and what one can make of them. I should warn you that this may get into a bit of a rant, as it touches on issues I am absolutely not rational or indifferent about.

    I'm inclined to give Padmé the benefit of the doubt since she actually was Queen at a time and knows how the system works.

    That's true enough.

    I would imagine that while the basic system of Naboo politics remains the same, and almost unchanging, each Queen would have her own views, which would affect policy during her terms. She would be influenced by her advisors as well. It also makes sense that a new queen would want to stand out in some way from her predecessors. Naboo, with its emphasis on culture and art, surely wouldn't be a conformist society. So it is possible that Apailana, with help from her advisors, might do some things differently than Amidala would have.

    Also: Note that she says she doubts the Queen will allow her to continue to serve. Indicating the Queen can ask her to resign, but she doesn't have to. So it isn't a law. And really, we don't know under what circumstances the monarch can ask the senator to step down. We do know the Naboo senator isn't elected, but is appointed by the monarch.

    But I doubt Apailana would have asked her to step down. Could she have stood up to the woman who had helped make her Queen? The woman who was so admired and idolized by her people? Whose image she could never hope to live up to? I'm not sure.

    I have to admit, those lines of Padmé's bothered me when I first saw ROTS, and they bother me still. I don't want them to be true. But if they are, and the Queen could, and would, take away her position if her pregnancy was known, well... It just reminds me of some of the worst parts of the culture I grew up in. If Star Wars is escapism, as so many people say it is, that isn't the sort of culture I want to escape to.

    It wasn't that long ago that a woman who was pregnant had no choice but to leave school, or quit her job. I would hope that Naboo wouldn't hold that sort of view. It's not, after all, Earth, or a Judeo-Christian society. It doesn't have to hold the views Western Culture* has had for far, far too long.

    As I told my brother, there is a big difference between maternity leave, and losing your job because you're pregnant.

    The Naboo are an idealistic people - with their child monarchs, and culture of art and beauty. There's something celibate about their public servants - Palpatine, the oldest we've seen, never had a family.

    I have to admit, I don't see the attitude towards sexuality that is assumed by Padmé's statement, that she could lose her job if it was known she was pregnant, as idealistic. I have other words for it, but they're not appropriate for this forum.

    The Naboo are idealistic as a culture, and maybe this is both their strength, and their weakness, as so many traits can be. Because they value innocence in their politicians, they hold them up to impossible standards that, in the end, no one human could possibly be. And maybe they value innocence too much (although I assume that the advisors are a lot more world weary, and that they're doing a lot of heavy political lifting, otherwise Naboo would just fall to pieces). After all, they let Jar Jar be junior representative, a postion that he was not at all qualified for.

    As for their public servants being celebate: I've noticed that, regarding characters in Star Wars, they're assumed to be celibate, or rather, almost pre-sexual, unless shown otherwise. But really, we don't see enough of the minor Naboo characters to know much about them. We don't s
  23. leia_naberrie Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 10, 2002
    star 4
    I have to admit, I don't see the attitude towards sexuality that is assumed by Padmé's statement, that she could lose her job if it was known she was pregnant, as idealistic. I have other words for it, but they're not appropriate for this forum.

    From what you've said, I take it to mean that you feel that the Naboo would have been 'offended' at Padmé getting pregnant (presumably out of wedlock)? Now that would have been old-fashioned, I agree, but it doesn't seem to be the case. A very pregnant looking Padmé gets a state burial at the end of her life, with the Queen and the whole Royal Court in attendance. There's a mention of a Naboo culture in the EU that forbid the father of the child from being investigated: even beyond her death, they respected her personal life.

    On the other hand, the AotC novelization has Sola and Jobal Naberrie constantly urge Padmé to leave public office and 'settle down'. Apparently, she cannot do both: have a personal life and a public one. And since Palpatine is the only male Naboo public servant we know of, the facts seem to lead to a conclusion that it is not permitted for a Naboo public servant to have a family. Perhaps this has something to do with a conflict of loyalties? Divided attention? Anti-nepotism? Extraneous expenses? :p (The entire Naberrie family seem to be living off Padmé's income. I daresay the taxpayers won't be too happy to add another 2.5 children to the mix.)

    It's much more coherent with what we know of Naboo that Padmé leaving her office has less to do with her being pregnant but more to do with having a family. It would have applied as well if she was a young male Senator who was about to have a child.


    The movies do have that constant, but unexplained, message that Padmé Cannot Know Love, but there isn't really enough information about Naboo culture to have a context to put it in. I wonder if Padmé, with her extreme devotion to duty, put at least some of that pressure on herself. That it wasn't as absolute, as total, as she made herself believe. We don't see enough of Naboo politicans, and certainly not their private sides, to know how representative she is.

    Well it's possible that all the handmaidens, Padmé, Jamilla, Apailana, Kylantha, Vernua and Palpatine are the exceptions to the rule and every other monarch and Senator that had come before and after was polygamous and had a sprawling family of ten. :p But really, we can only draw conclusions from what we do know.

    For the record, I don't believe that the public servants are expected to be celibate --- just not have families. (I think the phrase I used was 'something celibate', which I was trying to use to indicate an 'appearance' of celibacy.) From what we've actually seen, that's the most direct conclusion. Sure Palpatine wasn't interested in a family for his own personal reasons, but there's no doubt that that served him as an aging politician in a land where public office seemed to be reserved for the young and idealistic.
  24. Pandora Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 13, 2005
    star 3
    Yes, Padmé does receive a state funeral, even while appearing to be visibly pregnant, so they don't seem to hold her pregnancy against her. The Queen, instead of booting her out of the senate, is there to follow her casket. And yet... I wonder how the Queen, and other Naboo politicans, would have responded to her pregnancy had she lived.

    There's no way to know, really.

    I suppose what I find old-fashioned is the implication that Padmé *can't* have both a personal life, (which, here, does not necessarily mean having a family), and a career. She has to pick one, and it's clear that her mother and sister had that same choice, and what their decisions were, as they appear to be full time housewives. It's also clear which one they would like her to pick, though I'm not sure that Padmé could have ever been satisfied just staying home with the twins, after being a Queen and Senator and a Person of Importance.

    For the record, I don't believe that the public servants are expected to be celibate --- just not have families. (I think the phrase I used was 'something celibate', which I was trying to use to indicate an 'appearance' of celibacy.) From what we've actually seen, that's the most direct conclusion.

    That's interesting. (And personally, from what I know of human nature, I am sure many of them wouldn't be celibate even if it was required.) I do think that this would apply mostly to higher ranking politicans, such as the Queen and Senator, because of their highly visible public image, and yes, probably because of issues of conflicting loyalties. Though, considering how young most of the Queens in the prequels are, this would be a non-issue. And maybe that's another reason why these Queens have such short terms. One can only stay young, idealistic, and innocent for so long.

    It does make one wonder why, knowing all this, Padmé becomes pregnant. Surely, in such a technilogically advanced universe, they have some form of birth control. Or maybe, as I read in a story once, she made that mistake because it was what she wanted in her heart. Maybe she was getting burnt out by politics, and having to give everything up for it. That would be understandable.

    So, if a politican can have a personal life of some sort, why is it made so clear that Padmé can't? That she not only can't have a family, she can't have a personal life at all? That's where I think she is putting the added pressure on herself.
  25. leia_naberrie Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 10, 2002
    star 4
    Actually, it seems more that a politican can't have a personal life - as a politician. Padmé could have made the choice to leave politics and settle down - as advised by the women in her family. But she couldn't do both.

    I suppose what I find old-fashioned is the implication that Padmé *can't* have both a personal life, (which, here, does not necessarily mean having a family), and a career. She has to pick one, and it's clear that her mother and sister had that same choice, and what their decisions were, as they appear to be full time housewives. It's also clear which one they would like her to pick, though I'm not sure that Padmé could have ever been satisfied just staying home with the twins, after being a Queen and Senator and a Person of Importance.

    Well it did all happen 'a long, long time ago'. :p

    Seriously though, I checked Wookiepedia and although it's said that Ruwee Naberrie served in the Refugee Relief Movement as ayounger man, there's no mention of either Jobal or Sola ever going into politics. (In fact, I think it's very unlikely Sola was ever in politics). Even if that were the case, I don't think it would have been such a difficult decision to make. It would simply be a matter of passing on the torch to the next idealistic young public servant and going on to have a life of one's own. Now and then there are exceptions - the likes of Vernua, Palpatine and Amidala, and if their own lives are any indications, these exceptions proved the rule. :(
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