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Saga Theory: Force ghosts are only visible to Force-sensitive beings

Discussion in 'Star Wars Saga In-Depth' started by Jonipoon, Dec 1, 2014.

  1. Jonipoon

    Jonipoon Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 22, 2014
    In the original saga, we learned that Obi-Wan, Yoda and Anakin became Force ghosts. In the prequel saga, we learned that Qui-Gon also became a Force ghost. Also, in the end scene of Return of the Jedi it seems as if Luke is the only one who can see them, but he can't see Qui-Gon.

    In the Star Wars G-canon we only ever see three Force ghosts, and in subsequent versions of Return of the Jedi, the Force ghost of Qui-Gon has never been added,. Why? Well, some may of course say that it's because Lucas felt it would be too strange to have Qui-Gon pop up out of nowhere since he is never mentioned in the original saga. But in that case, why did he add in shots of Coruscant and Naboo? I would say there's a different reason for this.

    My theory is that Force ghosts are only visible to Force-sensitive beings, and people who knew them before they became Force ghosts.

    This explains why Luke can never see Qui-Gon, and why Luke is the only one who can see Anakin, Obi-Wan and Yoda in the end scene of Return of the Jedi.


    Let me explain why this is correct:

    If Force-ghosts were visible to everyone, regardless of Force sensitivity and knowledge about the person, the ending of RotJ shouldn't make sense. Han should be able to see Obi-Wan because he knew him, Leia should be able to see Vader/Anakin, and Chewbacca should be able to see both Obi-Wan and Yoda. Actually everyone, even the Ewoks, should be able to see the Force ghots. But they don't, even though it's hinted that Leia saw "glimpses" of Anakin's Force ghost. More about this below.

    First. Force ghosts are part of the Force, they are one with the Force. So it only makes sense to have Force-sensitive beings being the only ones who can see them.
    Second. Force ghosts "communicate" not only as Force ghosts but also also as voices, as we see Obi-Wan do to Luke several times, including the famous "Use the Force Luke" quote. This is something that living, Force-sensitive beings also can do to each other, as we see Luke and Leia "talking" to each other through the Force in Empire Strikes Back. In Attack of the Clones, we even hear the voice of Qui-Gon talking to Anakin when he slays the sand people, and appearantly Yoda was able to hear Qui-Gon talking to Anakin aswell. This establishes the fact that Yoda could hear it because he knew Qui-Gon and knows Anakin. It's also possible that Yoda could hear it because he is such a powerful Jedi. However at this point in the saga, Yoda didn't know about Force ghosts yet, so he probably didn't know what he was hearing or why. The only reasonable explanation is that Yoda heard it, not only because he is Force-sensitive, but because he knew Qui-Gon and knows Anakin.

    Now that we know this, we can go on with the end scene in Return of the Jedi and explain why Luke is the only one who can see the Force ghosts. The scene reveals alot of clues to this. Leia is also Force-sensitive, but she doesn't know Yoda or Obi-Wan. However, it's important to note that she is the one who walks to Luke in order to bring him back to the party. It appears as if she doesn't see the Force ghosts, but if you look closely at Leia's face you can see that she slightly overlooks her shoulder to the Force ghosts behind as Luke waves good-bye. Now, if my theory is right, Leia should be able to see Anakin's force ghost, but not Yoda and Obi-Wan. However, she never saw her father unmasked, and she never met her father as Anakin Skywalker, only as Darth Vader. But since she technically knows him, its possible that Leia actually sees some glimpses of Anakin's Force ghost. Or she can hear him talking to her. That also explains why she doesn't think its strange that Luke waves goodbye to some invisible people, as she knows that there is something there. She is Force sensitive!
     
  2. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012
    I think the EU takes the approach that droids can't see or hear Force ghosts - with Luke having to explain to Artoo about Obi-Wan "yes, that's who I sometimes talked to on Dagobah."

    Offhand, I can't recall any notable cases where someone explicitly not Force-Sensitive, can see a Force ghost.
     
  3. Jonipoon

    Jonipoon Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 22, 2014
    I know, but my theory also explains why Luke can't see Qui-Gon, and why Leia can't see the others.
     
  4. Yanksfan

    Yanksfan Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Nov 3, 2000
    Qui Gon can't be seen by Luke because Qui Gon didn't show up for the Endor party. And why would he? He never knew Luke and Luke never knew him.
     
  5. Thom Skywalker

    Thom Skywalker Jedi Master star 1

    Registered:
    Dec 1, 2014
    Luke could have seen Qui-Gon, if Qui was invited to the ghost party!!!
    There was absolutely no reason for Qui-Gon to show up...
    Maybe the ghosts lose their connection to the material world after some time dead, and become more midichloriaed!!!

    Obi-Wan and Yoda just wanted to say good-bye to Luke.
    Anakin wanted to show himself as fine and restored ("return" of the jedi).
    They went there to see Luke, not the others....

    The Obi-Wan ghost voice was heard by Luke during ANH, when Luke knew to little about the Force (as Leia did during ROTJ).
    So, Luke heard him because of the Obi-Wan ability, not Luke's.
    The 3 ghosts in ROTJ did NOT wanted to be seen by anyone there besides Luke.

    But the force sensitives may have some influence over the ghosts.
    Obi-Wan told Luke he would have to face Vader alone, saying "I cannot interfere".

    Why not?
    Was it because Vader would block the ghost connection? Would Vader hear the Obi-Wan tips to Luke?
    Or was it for ethical principles? After all, Vader had already beat him.
     
    _Sublime_Skywalker_ likes this.
  6. The_Phantom_Calamari

    The_Phantom_Calamari Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Nov 10, 2011
    I didn't know any of this was ever in dispute.

    Anyway, Qui-Gon doesn't show up because 1) he and Luke don't know each other and 2) he isn't able to show up in corporeal form, except on Mortis (as explained in TCW).
     
  7. darth-sinister

    darth-sinister Manager Emeritus star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 28, 2001


    Right. Lucas said that he was not that accomplished that he could be seen, only heard. He could be seen on Mortis because it was a world that was very powerful in the Force and thus he was seen.
     
    darth ladnar likes this.
  8. Cushing's Admirer

    Cushing's Admirer Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Jun 8, 2006
    Interesting theory. I'm impressed how you've thought it out. :) Personally, I don't agree but I'm glad it works for you.
     
  9. The Supreme Chancellor

    The Supreme Chancellor Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 4, 2012
    It makes sense that only Force sensitves can see ghosts. In fact it's implied in the films since Luke and Yoda are the only ones who talk to ghosts. Also it seems ghosts can choose who sees them as well, which explains why Leia can't see anyone at the final celebration. A. She wouldn't recognize any of them and B. Seeing a bunch of ghosts would probably just scare her.

    As to why Qui-Gon doesn't appear to Luke..why would he? Qui-Gon's contribution to the saga is discovering Anakin, training Obi-Wan, and ensuring that Obi-Wan trains Anakin (which may have been a mistake). He doesn't have a direct connection to Luke like Obi-Wan does, and he can't physically train Luke like Yoda does. But I'm sure he is quite proud of Anakin in the end and feels that his faith in the chosen one is finally justified.
     
  10. The Supreme Chancellor

    The Supreme Chancellor Jedi Master star 4

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    Sep 4, 2012
    He cannot interfere because he's a ghost. He can't touch anything.
     
  11. Thom Skywalker

    Thom Skywalker Jedi Master star 1

    Registered:
    Dec 1, 2014

    What about making noises, singing "Jedi Rocks" or repeting "you will gonna lose, you will gonna lose, you will gonna lose...."?

    I believe Obi-Wan ghost could troll Vader during all the fight, and give Luke great tips like: "Be careful! Vader is positioned to cut your arm, step back!!!"

    Some tips could really make Vader be tormented during the fight, like "Luke, tell him he won the Pod Race because Qui-Gon used the Force against Sebulba". That would be enought to destroy the dark lord.

    :_|
     
  12. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012
    In Brian Wood's Star Wars comic series - Ben keeps taunting Vader as a ghost. Then he lets slip that "there is another Skywalker" - Vader rechecks his memories, remembers Luke's name from the escape (one of the others yells it) and Ben is rather worried.

    In The Life & Legend of Obi-Wan Kenobi however, it's suggested that Ben fears that the Sith might use something like a Thought Bomb to capture his spirit - so he tends to stay quiet and invisible while around them. He is extremely shocked when Vader saves Luke from the Emperor.
     
  13. Arawn_Fenn

    Arawn_Fenn Chosen One star 7

    Registered:
    Jul 2, 2004
    Ghost Qui-Gon levitates Yoda in TCW.
     
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  14. The Supreme Chancellor

    The Supreme Chancellor Jedi Master star 4

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    Sep 4, 2012
    TCW is a cartoon. And ROTJ came out almost 30 years before it.
     
  15. Alexrd

    Alexrd Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Jul 7, 2009
    So what?

    It's also interesting to note that Luke's ability to see Obi-Wan's ghost increases as his training evolves: he only hears a voice in ANH, sees a faded version of Obi-Wan on Hoth and during (and after) his training on Dagobah, he fully sees Obi-Wan.
     
  16. The Supreme Chancellor

    The Supreme Chancellor Jedi Master star 4

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    Sep 4, 2012
    Sorry. I meant to say TCW is a poorly written cartoon that tarnishes the original continuity. Any comments I make regarding the films I am referring strictly to the films. In that context, Obi-Wan is a ghost, and even though he wants Vader to be destroyed he literally can't do anything because he's a ghost. Or perhaps to try and interfere means he would be somehow tapping into the dark side. Those two options make sense to me.
     
  17. darth-sinister

    darth-sinister Manager Emeritus star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 28, 2001

    TCW is canon. Also, Qui-gon using the Force to levitate is not the same as appearing in a corporeal fashion. But the Jedi do not interfere because this is about Luke facing the Sith on his own.
     
  18. The Supreme Chancellor

    The Supreme Chancellor Jedi Master star 4

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    Sep 4, 2012
     
  19. El Jedi Colombiano

    El Jedi Colombiano Chosen One star 6

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    Jun 24, 2013
    Makes sense. Though since Leia was Force sensitive, I do wonder if she felt anything when Luke was seeing the ghosts
     
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  20. Iron_lord

    Iron_lord Chosen One star 10

    Registered:
    Sep 2, 2012
    Certainly the EU had her see a Force ghost early on (Anakin's - in The Truce At Bakura, only a few days after ROTJ).

    Can't recall if anything hints at her noticing what Luke's looking at in ROTJ though.
     
  21. darth-sinister

    darth-sinister Manager Emeritus star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

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    Jun 28, 2001
    How does it tarnish things, when Lucas was involved in the writing of the Yoda episodes?
     
  22. The Supreme Chancellor

    The Supreme Chancellor Jedi Master star 4

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    Sep 4, 2012
    It makes the TCW too long and condensed. It isn't beleiveable that all these events occurred in a span of 3 years. Anakin had an apprentice that is never mentioned again? Anakin became a knight immediately after he was clearly so unprepared in AOTC? Anakin/Obi-Wan encounter Greivous and Dooku several times during the war but in ROTS act like they have haven't in years? Continuity tarnished. Also, just because GL is involved in something does not mean it is above criticism:confused: I know you think GL quotes solve everything, but in reality, they do little when they contradict the actual work.
     
  23. darth-sinister

    darth-sinister Manager Emeritus star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 28, 2001

    1. A lot can happen in three years. Especially since most three to four episode arcs take place over a few days, and certain stories occur concurrently. I think it's been amended to four years now.

    2. Anakin became a Knight a few months into the war. Especially because of the war.

    3. Ahsoka not being mentioned in ROTS is no big deal, since other events and characters are never mentioned in later films. Panaka, Jamilla, Valorum, Bail Antilles, Wes Janson, etc.

    4. Anakin said that his powers doubled since last time, which is very vague. It can refer to Geonosis, or it can refer to Kamino when they last fought. There's nothing that provides a contradiction with Grievous. The only one being the joke about size and age.

    But Yoda being lifted up by Force ghost Qui-gon doesn't really contradict anything.
     
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  24. El Jedi Colombiano

    El Jedi Colombiano Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    Jun 24, 2013

    Where did you hear this? I would very much like to know. I mean, as much as I love TCW, I would have liked to have seen a more detailed timeline that went into how the episodes fitted within those years.
     
  25. darth-sinister

    darth-sinister Manager Emeritus star 10 VIP - Former Mod/RSA

    Registered:
    Jun 28, 2001
    I don't know for certain that it has, that's why I said I think it was. But it is a given that select episodes take place concurrently with other episodes. Like the Artoo and the Astromech arc would take place during a separate adventure that Anakin, Obi-wan and Ahsoka went on without him.
     
    El Jedi Colombiano likes this.