ST Theory: Kylo and Rey have met before

The context of the film is rather different than from the novelization. Pretty much ALL of the dialogue that even remotely hints at a "connection" is removed from the film, and what little is left takes on a different/context and meaning as a result.

 

So which do you believe?

 

It definitely didn't happen at the Jedi Academy. Hidalgo conformed as much with a tweet: https://mobile.twitter.com/pablohidalgo/status/682962831998730241?ref_src=twsrc^tfw

Many thought it was in the JA and that's why it was in her vision. I suspect it's from the future but I could be wrong?

 

Right now, I'm going with what the FILM tells/shows us. If stuff from the novelization is later confirmed in future films, then good. But until then, film>novelization for me.

 

They probably have met before. The novelization depicts Ren saying, "It's you," when Rey calls the lightsaber to her hand past him. If they haven't met, he at the very least knew of her before his turn.

 

Agree.

There are two things that stick out in my mind:

1. They both have strong Mind Reading Force power
2. During the duel, Rey 'Awakens' when Kylo mentions "the Force" (Han and Maz had both mentioned it prior but it took Kylo saying it to trigger)

(Edited)

 

Or it took Kylo saying it to remind her of Maz's words (heck she even closes her eyes to "feel The Force and let it guide you," just like Maz had told her to do before). It had nothing to do with Kylo saying it specifically.

 

I think Pablo Hidalgo has stated, it is referring to her as the Awakening of the Force. She's the one who woke it up it seems.

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Take the Solo children from the original EU,make one evil,the other younger. Serve at room temperature.

 

Exactly darkcide, Kylo and Rey have met before because they are brother and sister.

 

I tend to think that Rey is not a Solo. My reasons are that 1) Leia and Han only mention a son throughout the movie, and always talk like Ben was their only child, and 2) while losing Ben must have been devastating, I feel like it would be very out of character for Han and Leia to just go their separate ways (Leia back to the military life, Han back to smuggling) if they still had a daughter to raise, much less abandon their own daughter on Jakku with someone like Unkar Plutt.

If Rey is related to any character from previous movies, my money is on Luke. But that presents similar problems; if Luke hid her, say to protect her, why with Plutt? But her family must be significant somehow, otherwise why would the script bring it up so much? As Sherlock Holmes would say, "More data! I cannot make bricks without clay!"

 

I believe Pablo's words about "It is you" meaning that Kylo acknowledged Rey as the awakening of the Force he felt as much as I believe Santa Claus.

 

Who's to say Leia never told Han about their daughter? He could have left and then Leia got pregnant.

 

If Leia got pregnant after Han left,then he couldn't be Rey's father.

 

Perhaps Leia knew she was pregnant with Rey before Han left but didn't tell him,and in order to protect her from Snoke she had Lor San Tekka take Rey to Jakku where he stayed to watch over her,in somewhat the same way that Ben Kenobi stayed on Tattooine to watch over Luke.

 

No, that doesn't work. I just don't buy Leia keeping something like that from Han, not at all.

 

There could be reasons why she didn't tell him. There's still so much we don't know yet and it's certainly within the realm of possibilities.

 

Kylo and Rey, brother and sister, the following is my reasoning;

In the TFA movie (or at the top of page 94 in the novel), we have the “what girl” comment; which has already been discussed earlier in this thread. But for me, it’s less to do with what is said and more to do with the physical reaction displayed by Kylo. The novel describes how Kylo takes a “lower and more menacing” tone towards the officer who informed him and begins to choke him. We see this in the movie too. I realise that Kylo is prone to these kind of spontaneous outbursts, but this reaction seems over-the-top even for him; particularly if it is just some random girl from some random planet. The reaction displayed by Kylo in this scene suggests there is additional baggage playing on his mind in the form of someone who he possibly knows. I tend to agree with other contributors in this thread that potentially it was Kylo who left his younger sister on Jakku because he could not kill her. Han and Leia (and Luke for that matter) would never leave a young child, their own flesh and blood, in the hands of someone like Unkar. But someone as desperate as Kylo could; particularly if he needed to do this quickly without raising the suspicions of Snoke. Also, because of the continual conflict Kylo feels with both sides of the force during TFA, he struggled to kill his father after years of being a “bad guy”. So when Snoke gives Kylo the order / test (similar to that faced by Anakin when Palpatine evokes order 66) to slaughter Luke’s pupils, there would have been more of the light in him then and he could not go through with killing his sister. Knowing he can’t take her with him, he puts her on some random planet where she may have half a chance at life; but a place where he can forget about her.

Reasoning 2 centers on the lightsaber flashback scene at Maz’s castle. “A voice” tells her to wait here and I will come back for you sweetheart; words to that effect. To me, the word “sweetheart” is a term of endearment used by one partner towards another; or by a family member towards another. Where family is concerned, I would mainly say that sweetheart is a term used by an adult towards a child. But although less likely, I think it could also be used by a much older brother towards his little sister; particularly if he has a very close relationship with her. Nothing in the novel (or in the movie) states that Rey recognizes the voice as Kylo’s. So a potential problem in reasoning lies there. But for me, regardless of the lack of recognition, these words could potentially have been used by Kylo just prior to the Jedi slaughter. He removes Rey from harm’s way, tells her to wait “here” whilst he carries out the slaughter. He then uses the gravity of the situation as a means of persuading Rey to leave with him and he drops her off at Jakku saying mum and dad will be here soon. Clutching at straws, maybe.

Reasoning 3 is the bottom of page 250 and the top of page 251. Again this has been mentioned earlier in the thread where the words “It is you” have been analysed before. Kylo knows Rey. These words are related to reasoning 1 where in this situation, the additional baggage that had been playing on his mind has now proven his suspicions correct. Kylo, Rey, Jakku, there seems to be direct relationship here. And it’s not from crossing paths randomly at the Jedi Academy. The relationship is deeper than that.

Reasoning 4 concerns the bottom of page 254 and the top of 255 in TFA novel. It is the written version of the look Leia gives Rey and the hug that follows when Rey arrives back from destroying the Starkiller base. Maybe it’s a moment of shared grief over Han. Maybe. But only a mother looks at her child like that and embraces her child like that. At the bottom of page 254, where Rey is concerned, it states “instinctively, she headed towards Leia”. Instinctively? Hmmm, interesting choice of words. Instinctively. But she has never met Leia (as an adult). And Leia? The tough, no nonsense general. She doesn’t really give off a warm, compassionate exterior towards those who surround her. And the top of page 255, they embrace without embarrassment and hesitation. For the female audience, do you embrace another female like that who you don’t know? I can only answer from a male perspective where men (on the rare occasions that they do) awkwardly embrace with their hips well apart. If a man embraces a female they don’t know too well, again it’s out of respect with hips well apart. Leia and Rey’s embrace seemed to be warm and full bodied.

Then there is the fact that the new official Disney canon seems to vaguely follow that of the EU (now Legends) material. And Kylo has a sense of compassion towards Rey; to the point where Snoke notices and questions this in one of their “meetings”. Which is kind of strange because just about every other character in the movie (apart from Snoke) incurs aggressive and violent actions from Kylo; with his father being the most obvious. If this is a girl he’s just met and his master has instructed him to get the last puzzle as to Luke’s whereabouts, I would say that compassion is the last thing on Kylo’s mind when interrogating someone for the map. Except if Rey means more to him.

It’s the way I see it, Kylo and Rey are siblings. There’s also the possibility that she’s a Skywalker or a Kenobi. I’m open to all 3 scenarios and it would be really cool if she was a Kenobi. But gut instinct says she is a Solo.

 

Yeah, I am so much on board with this reading of it.

My theory is that Rey was at the academy. Kylo couldn't kill her for some reason (perhaps because they're related, perhaps because of a brief Ruthlessness Failure on his part, perhaps whatever - pick your theory), and this was probably against Snoke's orders so took her to the most distant backwater of a planet he could find, clumsily wiped her memory, and hoped she'd disappear and never be heard from again.

Unfortunately, she bumped into a droid, a certain awakening happened, and a MASSIVE spanner got thrown in the works.

The light side got to her before the dark side did, which Ren considers to be a misfortune, and this is why he offers her a teacher. He knows of her power and wants her on the dark side with him, and believes this is what Snoke will want too. Whether that will happen or not remains to be seen.

 

Except that Pablo Hidalgo has already stated that the academy massacre happened AFTER Rey was left on Jakku (quite a bit later). It was much more recent than some people seem to think.

 

Hidalgo has also stated that his tweets are not to be taken as canon.
Nothing is set in stone until it's been officially released as canon material.

 

No, she actually doesn't remember being left on Jakku; In the canonical Rey's Survival Guide, by Jason Fry, (basically an in-universe journal that Rey kept to pass time), she specifically writes: "I don't know how I got here, or why." Unless that gets retconned in the future (there are a few mistakes in the book due to the fact that it was being written while the movie was in production), that would mean that Rey seeing herself being abandoned in the vision would be the first time she sees/recalls/whatever that event.

The jr. novelization does add a scene establishing that that Rey has a recurring dream about being left, with someone -- presumably one of her parents on the day she was left -- saying: "Stay here. I'll comeback for you, sweetheart. I promise" (p. 35). Before the Awakening also suggests that she may have some trace recollection of her pre-Jakku life: "She half-dreamt of being warm, of being small, lost memories trying to swim their way to the surface" (p. 109). So, I'd buy that she may have some echoes of memories in her subconscious, but nothing concrete, much less that she can recall on command.

I do hope that the future movies and tie-in materials, in addition to filling in the gaps for us, make it more clear exactly what she knew and didn't know before running to BB-8 that fateful evening.

 

My theory is that it was Kylo Ren who had spared her life, and that it was he who had stranded her on Jakku. I'm guessing that he didn't know who she was at the time, probably because the 10 year old Ben Solo was taken in by Snoke and disappeared with him before his cousin was actually born. So, when the time came to slaughter the students at Luke's Jedi School, Kylo didn't have the heart to kill a child so young and decided to leave her on some harsh, backwater planet to suffer another fate instead. Luke was probably off somewhere during the attack (probably lured away by Snoke) and returned home after sensing what happpened to only find everyone of his students, along with his wife, in a burned pile of bodies. Luke probably reasoned that his daughter met the same demise as his wife and students and decided to give it all up and go into a self imposed exile on Ach-To.

Well, that's my theory...it's probably wrong, but that's pretty much how I want things to play out.

 

I've heard of the "Kylo Ren left Rey on Jakku" theory before, but never really understood how that was supposed to work. Out of curiosity, what kind of clues are use used to support it?

 

I presume the theory exists, and it's one I subscribe to, because it's been established that Kylo has problems being drawn to the light. Dropping Rey off on Jakku could be his first offense.


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