Theory on why older fans love the OT, have some issues with the PT

Discussion in 'Star Wars Saga In-Depth' started by Deuspater, Feb 12, 2003.

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  1. Jack-D-Ripper Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Dec 21, 2002
    star 2
    I don't really have a problem with the Prequels: I just think they're fun movies and not to be taken seriously under any circumstances. And same goes for the originals: it's all pretty basic entertainment that has a lot of flair and eneregy.

    Anyway, the PT is more like a variation on a theme than a direct predecessor. I think the Prequels would have been recieved better if the story was more distantly related to the OT then it is, if the PT tried to place some distance between itself and the originals. But the fact of the matter is that that wasn;t Lucas's plan, and he has done pretty well so far with something that is actually pretty restricted and limited. In fact, he has made the PT transcend those built-in limitations to a degree that I find satisfying, because truth be told, when the PT first became official, I wondered if they would even work at all, and I had no idea what to expect. So I actually think they've done well in spite of the built-in limitatioins of the story and the built-in skepticism of the fans.

    -JDR.
  2. Nerak Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Apr 28, 2002
    star 3
    Human factor my ass. Some of the best Aliens or in the OT. For one thing wookie, the wierd aliens in the bar (ANH)

    Uh what else, YODA. He was importnat, he filled like a good part of the film, a lot of screen time. And the Bothans, they died for death star plans. [face_laugh]

    The other was Akbar that Fish guy in ROTJ, the coolest good-guy wierd looking alien. And you got that Mexicon Alien with Lando.

  3. Deuspater Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Feb 11, 2003
    rpeugh, great explanation of how Maul and Dooku are kind of complements to each other, a yin\yang sort of thing. I never thought of it that way.
    The more I think about it, the more I think CG has been overused in the PT. I still love the movies, but I agree that it could have been scaled down a bit. Obviously you would have to do it for Coruscant, but I agree that anything that can be actually built, so long as it is not exorbitantly expensive, should be done. I was watching one of the documentaries on the AOTC DVD, and there was a quick cut between the droid factory scene in AOTC and the scene on Tatooine from Ep. IV when Luke is staring into the twin suns. It was a strange sensation. The only way I could describe it was that my eyes somehow "felt better" watching the Ep. IV footage, as If my eyes had been straining without me even realizing it.
  4. Nerak Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Apr 28, 2002
    star 3
    Yeah it's like the OT can chill concern on the moment. On the PT no relaxing.
  5. stainlesssteelrat Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Feb 9, 2003
    I think there is many factors many of which has been mentioned the look being one. its as different as you can get. as a kid(huge Saga fan here i like'em both.) the space battles were a huge attraction for me (still is)and to be honest can you get any cooler looking than the Millenium Falcon or an X wing in TPM the ships just werent cool .
    Add to that a character like Jar Jar who irratates older people because he was written to appeal to the kids he just doesnt fit in with their preconceptions of what star wars is (same thing with the ewoks though they had far less screentime so they were forgivable )
    imho i didnt think the score of TPM was all that impressive not counting duel of the fates and the droid invasion.i just cant put on the soundtrack and listen to it like i do the other 4 without fast forwarding it.
    I for one think the abovementioned problems were fixed to a large extent with AOTC and cant wait for ep3.
  6. Nerak Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Apr 28, 2002
    star 3
    you killed it dude
  7. Valiant_Starlight Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Feb 15, 2003
    I think that the bad acting and bland scripts contribute to the dislike that older fans have for the PT. It is hard for some to imagine seeing the 'hexology' from 1 to 6.

    No three actors can live up to the chemistry that Harrison Ford, Carrie Fisher, and Mark Hamill had on the screen, so therefore, some of the original magic is gone. I agree that CGI is somewhat overused, it takes away the thrill of any stunts that Ewan McGregor does in AOTC. However, if you look at Star Wars as an entire saga, and not just an OT and a PT, the PT holds it's own very well against the original movies.
  8. winter_chili Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 2002
    star 5
    im gonna keep this short cause i hate long posts

    one reason i think is that its like the museum in catcher in the rye, we want it to be exactly the same but its not its changed just like we have
  9. MikeSolo Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 6, 2002
    star 4
    "Human factor my ass. Some of the best Aliens or in the OT. For one thing wookie, the wierd aliens in the bar (ANH)"

    Thank you :) But If you look at ANH and ESB Not many Aliens play major Roles yes we have Chewie but he just stands around making nosie n shooting stormtroopers. Yoda teaches Luke the only alien that really plays a major role. The Aliens in the bar are just in the background sitting around talking. ESB snow monster plays a small part. Now these two movies are praised worhshipped by grown men as the gods of Star Wars movies.

    Out of the OT RTOJ gets the most negative feedback...Aliens play bigger roles in RTOJ Jabba the Hutt is in one big major sence along with all those cool background Aliens..you have the Rancor playing another role...then there is Ackbar thank you for mentioning him :) the Bothans who we don't see but hear about..Lando's co pilot and my fav the Ewoks....all Aliens playing big roles which was alot more compared to ANH and ESB. You can also add Chewie and Yoda.

    Then we have the PT TPM Jar Jar Binks playhing a major role along with the Gungans, Watto and Alien Jedi. There is a major war with Aliens Gungans fighting Robots no humans in that war. Those Aliens working for Darth Sidious play another major part in the movie. Darth Maul is Alien looking which I didn't get since the Empire is Pro Human. Anyways TPM has alot more aliens involved in the story. TPM has more negative feedback than all the SW Movies.

    ATOC aliens not playing a major role as in TPM or RTOJ but they're still more than in ANH and ESB. So you still get tons of negative feed back but some feel it was better than TPM.

    Now this is not the sole factor in why Older fans love the OT and have issues with the PT. I shouldn't even said it was a factor its just something to think about.
  10. Whirling_Sabers Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Feb 14, 2003
    The old trilogy told a great story and accomplished this by having actors playing characters that were fun to watch. I could watch the entire old trilogy over and over and still find them "fun."

    The previous trilogy tells a story (that I want to see because I loved the older trilogy and want to see how it all started) I do not really find the actors and characters to be my main focus.

    I see oh wow pretty colors (CGI use) and I say oh cool thats how the old trilogy story was started.

    After I have seen the pretty colors and know the back ground story I find myself not really wanting to watch them again.

    I have seen the previous movies many times of course have them both on DVD but I dont find these movies "fun" just I guess you could say "serious." I dont mean serious as far as the plot or anything but serious in that I want the story and to see the special effects that is all I dont watch them for the fun of watching them becasue they just do not seem fun.

    On a side note the Old trilogy's actors blow these new guys away on every level especially character-movie watcher involvment. ( I cared about the old trilogy's characters)






    Basically you have

    Old trilogy - Story/Actor/Character based

    New Trilogy - Story/Visual based

    Shows that the better a movie looks does not mean the better a movie is.
  11. Jack-D-Ripper Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Dec 21, 2002
    star 2
    ^Well there you have it. Different tastes mean different views on the movies.

    I personally find the Prequels to be far more fun to watch than the originals: there is a dynamic energy to the prequels that is carried in the visuals. Some people don't respond to visual stuff, but I do. I also find the original films fun, but Empire is pretty heavy going and subdued: it is not a fun movie. It is serious, maybe too serious, for Star Wars. But it's still good, however.

    I must say I'm not the slightest bit interested that the OT is not on DVD yet: its time will come, but having seen those films far too many times, I find myself liking the Prequls more at this stage, simply because I haven't had every frame and line and sound burned into my brain. And the fact that the Prequels are about ten times as visually-dense, I find there are more details to be discovered.

    -JDR.
  12. WellKnownCharacter Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 25, 2002
    star 2
    I entirely agree with you Deuspater- I beleive that despite some perfectly reasonable issues (Occaisional dodgy acting- overeaching CGI) the reason why a lot of the OT fans have issues with the PT is that it changes the entire atmosphere of Star Wars. Dont get me wrong(o) I think thats a perfectly fine reason for not enjoying the prequels-I'm not bashing the bashers- But I think the reason why a lot of fans dont like the prequels isnt because there badly made, or have no soul,or are just effects movies, it's because they don't like the fact that something that they loved for years of their lives turned out to be different than they thought, They loved it when it was Luke,Han and Leia in their adventures with the evil Darth Vader but now the prequels dont let them view those adventures in the same way-its not like they can pretend they don't exist-they have been forced to accept that something they perceived as perfect and complete wasnt in fact what big GL was aiming for. And that (quite rightly) pisses them off royaly.
    Its hard for them to accept the prequels for several reasons but I beleive thats the underlying factor that many don't even realise-It changes their view on something they found perfect.
  13. WellKnownCharacter Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 25, 2002
    star 2
    Just reading through the past few pages and it was really refreshing to have group of fans who liked and dis-liked the preqels discuss them in a civil fashion,without resorting to squabbling like kids.
  14. rpeugh Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 10, 2002
    star 4
    Mike Solo is right. The human factor plays a big part in it. Aliens are fantasy elements, and if you have too many fantasy elements, you will alienate some members of the audience (no pun intended.) In a world where everything goes, some people tend to lose interest. This is why the original Robocop was so successful. The only fantasy elements were the two robots, and everything else was grounded in reality. This is in a movie that took place 13 years into the future (at the time of its release in 1987).

    As a heavy PT gusher, it helps me to keep in mind that this takes place in a GALAXY FAR,FAR AWAY. If you beleive that the universe is infinite, (as some mathmeticians and physicists do) then probability says that there is a galaxy full of many sentient alien species somewhere out there. That is the logical way of thinking about it.
  15. Jedi Trace SouthEast RSA

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Dec 15, 1999
    star 6
    Well, I guess I'm old (my daughter is the age that I was when I first saw ANH) but my issues with the PT have nothing to do with the story, the acting, or the dialogue. I have problems with ANY film that sacrifices character development for special effects. I want to walk away from a movie thinking, "Wow! Great movie!" not "Wow! Great special effects! What happened?"

    JMHO, of course.
  16. Sara_Kenobi Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 21, 2000
    star 7
    I enjoyed the PT. It's fun to see new SW films after years of thinking that there would be no more. I thought the story was better though in TPM then in Aotc character wise though. With Aotc, I felt like I watched a film that had 80% Special Effects, and 20% story. TPM had the SE of course, but the story was never ignored in favor of them. Not in my eyes, anyway.
  17. rpeugh Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 10, 2002
    star 4
    Here is another possible reason. Many of the older fans may have forgotten what life was like during their early twenties. I am in my early 20's and I identify more with Anakin than any other character in the saga. I dont understand why people say they dont care about the characters in the PT. In many ways, Anakin is like any typical 20 year old. He wants to be in control of his life, yet he is not quite yet ready to be on his own. I know what it's like to have a mentor/guardian seeing more of my faults than I would like. Its very frustrating.
  18. Naccha Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Oct 6, 1999
    star 3
    Now, look at how GL is making the PT. The actors are in a 8 ft tall concrete room for nearly every scene. IS GL concerned with helping his actors tell a story? I don't think so.

    George did shoot alot of footage on location as well. Naboo was filmed in Italy, then they were in Australia, I believe and also in Tunisia. The big difference is that Middle Earth is on Earth. Star Wars is in another galaxy all together. To create truly fantastical scenes to capture other worlds you do have to resort to green/blue screen usage. Yes, he did use CGI alot. But, so did LOTR. Jackson consulted with George on doing different effects. So, I think that is an unfair comparison... (I'm also a big fan of LOTR, so I am not dissing Jackson's trilogy by any means.)
  19. Whirling_Sabers Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Feb 14, 2003
    "I am in my early 20's and I identify more with Anakin than any other character in the saga"

    I am 22 years old and I am a Senior at Texas A&M. I worked to get where I am and I am proud of what I have accomplished thus far. With that being said I can honestly say I have NEVER EVER acted the way Anakin has in this past movie. If I had my father would have "whooped" me into tomorrow. When I see the way Anakin acts do I identify with him? HECK NO infact I believe its sickening and wish some one would give him a nice smack in the mouth or a good beating half the time. His behaves like a spoiled brat and its annoying.

    Also as far as bad acting in the PT just listen to the dialogue and especially Obi-Wan's laugh in the elevator on the way up to see Padme for the first time in AOTC. That scene characterizes the lack of emotion in their speach you see in the PT.
  20. AUNTIE_JEDI Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 30, 2002
    star 4
    I love all 5 films but OT - especially ANH - is closest to my heart because I grew up with it.

    Then OT was for me a progress story of Luke Skywalker but now OT and PT are a story of Anakin which I consider even more interesting. I think Anakin is the most fascinating character in SW world and not least because of HC who was an excellent choice for the role.
  21. VoijaRisa Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 12, 2002
    star 5
    While I still think that part of the reason people don't like the PT as much is because of the lack of bad guy you love to hate, I still think Maul and Dooku were perfect characters in a sort of sense.

    Maul was really just used as a tool of brute force to set things in motion. After Maul was done, Palpatine had no further use for him, let him die, and picked up Dooku. Dooku was the wily political tool that Palpy needed. However, neither was the ultamate bad guy like Vader. Just just lack presence. Maul may be creepy but he's quiet and doesn't have a whole lot of real intelligence from what I gathered (he's just trained as an assassain) and Dooku seems like someone who'd stuff a pillow up his shirt, put on a red suit and hang out at malls, asking what small children want for Chri... er... Life Day.

    Just not as cool as Vader.
  22. WellKnownCharacter Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 25, 2002
    star 2
    It doesnt bother me that the OT has more banter-more dogfights-and a better villain. If anything that PLEASES me becauses I know that the technology gap wont make the OT redundant. I look at it like this-

    PT- An epic story about political scheming combined with the discovery of a child prodigdy. His fall from grace and the galaxy is shrouded in darkness. Very epic and deals mainly with the universe at large.

    OT- A story about the chosen ones offspring and how they bounce off their friends and each other (showing us there is till light out there.) The offspring the get pulled into Galactic events with their father and attempt to redeem him-while freeing the galwaxy from the dark side.

    It doesnt bother mean that the Prequels start off in a slightly different style to the originals. And Clones got a lot more personal than Menace and I think EpIII will further progress...
  23. Nerak Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Apr 28, 2002
    star 3
    Maybe your right MikeSolo. But thats not why I don't like the PT, I kinda like Clones it has it's moments.

    The reason I don't like the PT is that it lies to you. Hear me out, when I say LIE TO I mean lucas trys to B.S is way through CGI and Effects. It's basicly saying "uh...yeah, yeah were good...LOOK LOOK, cool uh"

    I don't mind a movie that are stupid but they don't lie to you, the makers know it's stupid. Like the NEW GUY and ANOTHER TEEN MOVIE. Those were stupid movies but funny never the less. It does not B.S you.

    There are countless movies like this, like SCARY MOVIE
  24. Naccha Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Oct 6, 1999
    star 3
    I like all the films but imo the OT are just better films, and my age has nothing to do with it. I like the comaraderie between Han, Luke and Leia (and Chewie and the droids, too). I think the characterizations are done really well. I like how Luke is kind of geeky and annoying at first and then becomes something more that he could even imagine. His maturity progresses nicely from film to film...as does Leia and Han's romance. I like the fact that Lucas twists the usual hero gets girl into the anti-hero (Han) gets the girl. The hero (Luke) is evolved into something beyond the usual getting girl storyline. I love Leia as a smarta$$ girl, who is as far away from the traditional movie princess as you can get. Chewie is just cool and the droids are a great team. Vader is as dark as you can get. All the elements were right on with the OT.

    I like the PT, but it's lacking in some areas. Though, I loved Qui-Gon, I wish he wasn't killed off. He definitely is the coolest Jedi ever. And I like to see what Obi-Wan was like as a younger man. I do like how Anakin is a nerdy teenager with a crush on an older woman. But, the progression of his and Padme's romance is not well done at all. Dooku is okay, but I think Tarkin is much more sinister. I like Mace and of course Yoda. I like the PT, but more as a historical backdrop to the OT.
  25. Darth_Surly Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    May 10, 2002
    star 2
    I am one of those "older" fans. I saw all 3 OT films in their original theatrical runs. However, I have absolutely no problem with Vader/Anakin and his change/arc.

    When I saw the first trailer for TPM, I almost cried with joy. I bent over backwards to have an open mind about everything. I clung to my fandom for three years, trying to convince myself I really liked TPM.

    However, 2002 was the year that I finally gave up on my two most beloved sci fi franchises: Star Wars and Star Trek. They both had one more chance and they both blew it. I trace my SW disillusionment back to finally watching the TPM commentary. Lucas just went on and on about the CGI and how he wanted to do this shot and that, rarely talking about the characters or story. From there AOTC just sent things downhill.

    For me, it's the writing and the characters that are the problem. Just as an example, look at the female characters. For me Leia has always been a great female character - tough, smart. Padme doesn't ring true to me. Lucas has said he put her in those TPM outfits to signify the archaic system that weighs her down. However, I think it actually just weighed down her character and put up a physical barrier so we don't get to know her. (Besides the fact that part of the time it's not even Padme!)
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