ST Theory: Vader is a Force ghost teaching Kylo Ren

Okay, just hear me out on this: After seeing TFA 4 times I'm 75% sure Darth Vader is a Force ghost instructing Kylo Ren/Ben Solo along with Snoke/Darth Plagueus (yes, I buy that theory 100%). I know I'm playing "connect the dots" with the theory, but it would make an interesting twist to the story, at least to me.

1. In ROTJ, Obi-wan explains to Luke how Anakin Skywalker ceased to exist and he became Darth Vader. Anakin was "killed" by Vader.

2. Kylo Ren in TFA says to Vader's helmet (and I'm paraphrasing): "Show me the darkness again grandfather, so I may complete what you have started."

Theory: At first it was in name only, but when Anakin was told Padme was dead, the Vader part of the personality took over. He ceased to be Anakin Skywalker and became Darth Vader. Anakin Skywalker being so manipulated by Darth Sidious, plus the conflict inside him about the Jedi Order and his devotion to Padme it created a split personality. Literally two different people, who each draw upon opposite sides of the Force.

In ROTJ, the Light personality finally triumphs over the Dark. Anakin Skywalker comes back and "kills" Vader. Anakin comes back as a Force ghost to his son.But...

What if there was a Force ghost of Vader? What if for years Vader has been waiting for the right time and person to help defeat the son of Skywalker? And who better than someone of the Skywalker lineage?

Kylo comes to possess the artifact of Vader's helmet and let's assume there is residual Force energy in the helmet. It has ties to Vader's Force ghost and slowly over time it manifests visions of things in the past from Vader's perspective, and maybe manifests Vader's spirit itself.

"Show me the darkness again grandfather, so I may complete what you have started." The line takes on a whole new meaning. Discuss.

 

Or...The other 25% of me thinks he's just insane.

 

I think he is being shown a false ghost by Snoke or is just nuts, and will be thrown for a new one when real anakin shows up and smacks him up side his dunderhead.

 

http://boards.theforce.net/threads/...as-meant-to-be-in-ep7.50036394/#post-53027063

 

Could very well be that Snoke is manipulating Kylo Ren in this fashion as well. Interesting.

 

bump

 

Snoke has either created a false Vader ghost (my initial thought) or like the lightsaber, the helmet causes visions

 

For the love of God please no!

If Anakin's ghost is to appear it needs to be Anakin and not Vader because that breaks Canon in so many ways its actually funny.

 

He's not talking to the ghost of Vader. He's looking for the things that Vader did that earn him his reputation. It's the same way people say, "Show me, oh Lord" or something like that.

 

Vader was redeemed by Luke, Luke saved him and we see him with Yoda.

So Kylo has hate and fear in his heart, which clearly can lead to the dark side, once the dark side had a small foothold he looked to his Grandfathers evil legacy for strength.

 

If the lightsaber triggered visions and Yoda/Obi Wan giving Rey advice then I don't think it's a stretch to imagine Vader's helmet could do the same to Kylo, maybe he also heard Palps and Dooku.

 

Possible, but it would most likely be a mistake to go there. No version of Anakin's force ghost needs to show up again. After the special editions added Hayden Christensen to the end of RotJ, everyone has their own ideas about what's canon and what's not. It would just create more disagreement in the fandom. If it just HAS to happen, the original concept they were planning on using for TFA is cool: half Vader/half Anakin.

 

Vader would never waste time on a loser like Kylo Ren. lol

 

Can Sith even become force ghosts? I haven't seen it in a year and a half but I'm pretty sure that the Clone Wars episode that explained all this stuff implied that they couldn't. Personally I'm not too keen on the half Vader/half Anakin force ghost for that reason, plus the end of ROTJ is pretty clear - the full Anakin, with no hint of Vader comes back as a force ghost due to his redemption. Although who knows, if this half Vader/half Anakin ghosts shows up in Episode VIII maybe we'll get another edit to Anakin's force ghost at the end of ROTJ I agree it would look cool though but I don't think it would fit with continuity.

If we do see Anakin's ghost appearing to Kylo I hope it's to dissuade him from falling to the dark side and to tell him that Vader's no one to idolise.

 

I think some folks misunderstood me: the possibility that Anakin had a split personality. Literally two people: Anakin Skywalker and Darth Vader. I'm entertaining the possibility of two separate spirits/Force ghosts, not one Force ghost half Vader, half Anakin. I'm not saying this is the case at all, but AFAIK it's a possibility.

 

that is something I've considered as well.

 

How does it break canon? According to the EU? The EU isn't canon anymore.
Is there something in the novelization of the movies? I haven't read the prequel ones, and it's been a looong time since I read the novelization of ROTJ.
Help me out.

 

I disagree about Kylo Ren being a "loser".
If anything, Vader would see this as revenge for his downfall: manipulating the very son of those who were key in bringing him down, and then killing one of them.
The only thing Kylo Ren lost was all attachments to the Light side of the Force by killing his own father.
Kylo desperately wants to be like his grandfather by destroying Luke Skywalker, the last of the Jedi. He actions show he'll go to any length to achieve it.
Kylo Ren is raw with anger, has devotion to the Dark Side, and very powerful (stopping a blaster bolt in mid air, using the Force to draw info from minds, etc.)
Darth Vader was the Dark Side cool, calm, and collected. Kylo Ren is the Dark Side hot, angry, and chaotic...and possibly insane.
You can't reason with crazy, and that's why Kylo Ren is dangerous. Maybe even more than Vader.

 

The helmet is described as silent in the visual dictionary, there is no evidence that Vader is speaking to Kylo.

Kylo is speaking to Vader, as in the only vestage of him that remains by keeping to the helmet around. So he's speaking to himself. Kylo's only master is Supreme Leader Snoke, who acts as both a Palpatine and Sidious figure while Kylo plays the part of Anakin and Vader.

 

No, not instructing him in the dark side, but his grandfather will talk to him as a force ghost at some time in the ST.

 

Dead Sith could become Dark Side Spectres (which are like Force Ghosts, but tied to a location or artifact) in the EU. Those could also possess people or cloned bodies and live again.

That said, I don't think Anakin's Force Ghost is visiting Kylo Ren, unless said Ghost is a fake created by Snoke.

 

Rightly so...

If there is a "split personality" thing (there isn't, Vader and Anakin are the same persone, there is no separation, there are 6 films to prove it quite clearly) Vader wouldn't give a d...n if the "conflicted" Kylo exists. A pure Dark Sider Darth Vader has no family connection, can see only power.

 

Anakin was clearly redeemed at the end of RotJ. After wrestling with inner conflict for the whole movie, he kills Sidious, tells Luke "you were right about me", and joins Obi-Wan and Yoda in the Force when he dies. I have a hard time seeing how, after death, he would fall again and train Ben.

I think Ben is suffering from his own obsession with Vader and being deceived by Snoke.

 

As the Chosen One, he might have the power to appear in both light and dark form, but I highly doubt he is manipulating his grandson.

 

But Anakin turned to good, didn't he?