ST Theory: Vader is a Force ghost teaching Kylo Ren

I'm 100% sure that Snoke evoked Vader to help seduce Ben Solo to the dark side and continues to use him to control Kylo Ren. But Anakin was redeemed and Vader ceased to exist. That story of redemption is one of the most fundamental parts of the entire Star Wars saga, so to bring a Vader Force ghost into the sequels would totally undercut the core of the mythology.

It's also just way too convoluted from a storytelling perspective. Kids wouldn't really understand it. That's an important litmus test for theories.

 

So he's just crazy then. fine.

 

If Vader is appearing is a Sith Ghost masquerading at Vader. This happen in the canonical six season of The Clone Wars when Yoda encounters a ghost or spirit of Darth Bane and Yoda says, "Away with you, not real are you." The ghost or spirit of Dark Side which would have known Bane and any Dark Sider because it lived in them can manifest and even mimic the person or being it possessed.

 

If the ST shows a Vader, as in ghost that is dressed in a Vader costume, force ghost that communicates with Ren, I will join your march on the Mousehouse.

He is not Vader at the time of the ST. He is Anakin. Vader force ghost would make no sense.

 

That visualization of Bane was a creation of the Priestesses.

 

Actually a Vader "Ghost" could make sense in context.

Kylo im sure has done research on Vader, a mix with learning about him and his obsession with Vader, and his own mental instability, may cause a hallucination of Anakin in his Vader Persona. It wouldn't be an actual Force Ghost, but that is a way to give us a "Vader" in say Episode 8. This hallucination should also not show the good side of Anakin because Kylo doesn't care about that part of Vader's history.

 

Yes I thought of that too. An illusion could work as long as it didn't confuse people and make them wonder "wait, what?" You could also do it like someone suggested above and have it come from Snoke.

So there is a way but it would have to be done just so to pull it off.

 

I like the idea. I had a similar thought...of Vader...being a sort of incarnation of Force-Evil...dark side energy...that corrupts force sensitive lifeforms. Anakin was strong enough that eventually...through the love of his son...was able to defeat....but that evil simply left Vaders body....seeking another Force sensitive host that it can corrupt and twist. Just a thought. But I also do like the idea that Vader himself, as an evil force ghost has visited Kylo...and advised him...encouraging him to the dark side.

 

I'd say that it's almost certainly Snoke manipulating Kylo, through the helmet. Kylo's plea to the helmet matches up almost word for word with Snoke's guidance to him, and Snoke even tells Kylo that he will show him the Dark Side.

So the implication is that Snoke can create visions, and communicate through the mask. This is potentially interesting, as this could make more sense of the idea that Snoke was influencing Kylo Ren since he was a small boy. When Leia and Han discuss this, Han is aware of who Snoke is ( he's aware of the First Order, and the political state if the galaxy, so this is unsurprising ), but doesn't realise that Snoke was involved in Kylo's turn to the Dark Side. Leia has to fill him in on this, and says that she was aware that Snoke was following Ben 'from the shadows', but said nothing at the time, as she felt she could shield Ben from Snoke's influence. The thing is, if Snoke was someone with physical access to Ben Solo, Leia would have very easily been able to shut off his access to Kylo. If Snoke was someone in her circle, she'd have removed him as soon as she became aware of this. If Snoke was at Luke's academy, she'd have confided in Luke, and the resultant confrontation would surely be something that Han knew about.

So I think that Snoke is able to manipulate from a distance, and in the case of Vader's helmet, he's using a symbol that most appeals to Kylo Ren's pride.

 

Force ghost or not, Kylo believes his grandfather has at least once conected with him ou he would not ask him to show the power of the dark side AGAIN. Maybe he had a vision when he touched the helmet, like the vision Rey had when she touched Luke's saber.

 

Hayden Christensen: My grandson, sand is not to be brought on board the First Order's starships. Clean your boots after walking on desert planets. Sand is course and rough, and it gets everywhere.

 

Well, seeing how this sequel trilogy undercut the characters of Luke and Han and rendered the events of Episodes 4 through 6 completely pointless, I wouldn't put it past Disney retconning Anakin's redemption and having him return as a Darth Vader force ghost. Yes, it'd be stupid and destroy the narrative arc of the original films (Episodes 1 through 6), but considering what they did in The Force Awakens, I wouldn't put it past them.

 

Only if my split personality theory is true: two separate personalities of one Skywalker, one Vader.
I'm not saying it is the case at all. It's just a possibility. I just think it would be interesting.
Now, before anyone gets all riled up an say, "But what about the prophecy? Anakin was the Chosen One."
Was he? All we have it on was on Qui Gon's and Obi-Wan's assumptions.
Note that the Jedi Council didn't believe this 100%, including Yoda saying that the prophecy could be misread/misinterpreted.
They were always suspect of Anakin, and rightly so.
That's why (holds onto your lightsabers folks) he's not the Chosen One.
How does going to the Dark Side and slaughtering innocent children at the Jedi temple "bring balance to the Force"?
It doesn't. It pushes the galaxy further to the Dark Side.
Hunting down the rest of the Jedi does this as well.
And his death in ROTJ didn't restore balance either, because of the years that lead up to Ep 7 we have turmoil in the galaxy. The rise of the First Order, which was said exclusively in the film that it was born of the Dark Side with Snoke as leader. Plus Luke's failure of his new Jedi academy, him going into self-imposed exile, and the rise of Kylo Ren.
He simply sacrificed himself to save his son, because his love for his son brought him back. His sacrifice was not to "bring balance to the Force" Nothing more, nothing less.
"But the midi-chlorieans!" you say. "He was born of the Force itself." Yes he was, but with who's help? There is only one who is known do that and it's Darth Plagueus. A Sith.
What better way to destroy the Jedi than by creating a Force user from the Force itself, train him as a Jedi, and then completely corrupt him to bring him to the Dark Side.
And the whole time, right up until the end, had a few key figures believe he was the Chosen One. Destroyed from within.
Diabolical.

 

Care to make a thread to discuss this in finer detail? I dont get how you see that.

 

I'm curious too.