'There are many paths to god.'

Discussion in 'Archive: The Senate Floor' started by TrainingForUtopia, Mar 11, 2002.

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  1. KnightWriter Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 2001
    star 8
    "Totally burn all you guys..."?

    Why are you so militant about it? If people don't believe, that's their choice. If they do believe, that's their choice too. No need to be so eager to prove everyone wrong (in your eyes).
  2. TrainingForUtopia Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Mar 15, 2001
    star 4
    It's called "slang", buddy. [face_plain]

    P.S. - "Buddy" is also slang.
  3. IellaWessiriNRI Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 3, 2001
    star 4
    Great book, TFU. Used it many, many times myself :)

    Sans reading through all these pages, let me make one point: One problem people seem to have with God is that He "sends innocent people to hell." "Why the heck did we need Jesus, since God is all powerful and can let everyone into heaven anyway?"

    The fundamental issue here is God's character. God is just. When wrong is done, someone has to be punished for that wrong. When we sin, we deserve to be punished. God is loving, sure. But His sense of love doesn't override His justice, nor does His justice override His love, which is why He provided Jesus, so that He can satisfy both justice and love. "Hell" isn't clearly defined, except for the fact that it is eternal separation from God. And whether or not it's fiery damnation or torment is irrelevant - the message is clear: it's not a situation you want to be in. God doesn't send people to fiery pits with torture chambers. They choose themselves to separate from Him and reject His gift of love.
  4. cydonia Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 6, 2001
    star 5
    That makes me think of a guy proposing to a woman, giving her a ring, but she says she won't marry him, so he kills her. Now THAT'S love. ;)
  5. IellaWessiriNRI Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 3, 2001
    star 4
    That makes me think of a guy proposing to a woman, giving her a ring, but she says she won't marry him, so he kills her. Now THAT'S love.

    Punctuated by your classic sarcasm, of course. :) Think of it this way instead. The guy proposes to her. By proposing to her, he's offering her a way better life, as well as a perfect husband (impossible as that may be). She says no. After awhile, he proposes again. She says no again. This continues.

    Your first reaction is... dude! He should stop bugging her! It's totally her choice. Which is true. By rejecting him, she chooses to live in a life of poverty, etc. etc. (think of your own horrible scenarios) He proposes to her out of an act of love, yet she continually rejects him. Doesn't he have every right to walk away? Doesn't he have every right to leave her where she is? It's not like he proposed and then retracted the offer. She's the one who refused.
  6. cydonia Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 6, 2001
    star 5
    I like your analogy better if God leaves us where we are, living our day to day lives and dying a natural, non-predicted death. Even just sleeping in the earth for eternity with no torture, i can dig that. Problem is alot of christians have this hell concept where you aren't just left alone like this woman, you are actively punished eternally on purpose.
  7. TrainingForUtopia Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Mar 15, 2001
    star 4
    Everyone has the choice of where they go after they die.
  8. Jedi_Master201 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 5, 2001
    star 5
    Cydonia, we aren't just "dead". Personally, I don't like to try and explain what hell is. But I do believe that the Bible simply describes it as never-ending flames because that's how horrible it would be to live without God. Our souls are eternal, so wheter you're Christian or not, you'll be wherever you go for eternity.


    For the Christians, we'll be eternally with God in heaven. For the non-Christians, they'll be eternally seperated from Him. But that IS what the non-Christian wants, right? They don't like the Christian God. Well, you don't have to like Him. But while some of you guys sit there and dis Him for all the "horrible atrocities" done by Him in the OT, you forget where all the things come from like peace, hope, and most importantly, love. If you want to be eternally seperated from those things, then yeah, you shouldn't choose God.
  9. KnightWriter Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 2001
    star 8
    The generalizations never seem to stop here.


    For the non-Christians, they'll be eternally seperated from Him

    How do you know how God will judge each person?

    But that IS what the non-Christian wants, right? They don't like the Christian God.

    How do you know that's what non-Christians want, and that non-Christians don't like the Christian God? I'm interested to hear your reasoning on this. What about Jews, Muslims and peaceful atheists/agnostics and such.

  10. TrainingForUtopia Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Mar 15, 2001
    star 4
    "How do you know how God will judge each person?"

    Because the Bible tells us.
  11. GrandAdmiralPelleaon Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 28, 2000
    star 6
    Nobody even conciderd the fact that god might not be the true god. Prehaps we should all start worshipping the god of the Azteks. Who says he ain't the true god?

    Relgions are crazy.

    What happens when you die?

    You'll probably not notice. Like the stages inbetween dream and waking during the sleep.

    Your body will stop functioning.

    God = Easy way out.
  12. KnightWriter Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 2001
    star 8
    Your interpretation of Scripture might tell you one thing, but another person's might say another. There isn't one end-all interpretation.

  13. cydonia Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 6, 2001
    star 5
    You know, i think these threads could benefit from a healthy dose of "in my opinion" now and then. In my opinion. coughJM201cough. ;) ;) ;)






    :)
  14. Jedi_Master201 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 5, 2001
    star 5
    "How do you know how God will judge each person?"--KnightWriter


    "Because the Bible tells us. "--TFU


    Exactly, TFU.


    "How do you know that's what non-Christians want, and that non-Christians don't like the Christian God? I'm interested to hear your reasoning on this. What about Jews, Muslims and peaceful atheists/agnostics and such."


    Well, KnightWriter, it's pretty obvious that most non-Christians don't want to have anything to do with the Christian God. They don't believe in Him, and most of the ones I've talked to want nothing to do with Him.


    "Your interpretation of Scripture might tell you one thing, but another person's might say another. There isn't one end-all interpretation."


    Yes there is. Just because two people disagree doesn't mean they're both right. The other person may not realize they are wrong, but that doesn't take away from the fact that they are wrong.


    "You know, i think these threads could benefit from a healthy dose of "in my opinion" now and then. In my opinion. coughJM201cough. ;) ;) ;)






    :)"



    Nah... What's the point? My opinion is the only correct one. Duh. ;) :p
  15. Mandalori Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Jul 11, 1998
    hi
    I don't usually post anything on these boards but this seemed really interesting. As far as I am concerned , there are definately many, many paths to what we call God. Although I was raised in a wonderfully unique Jewish home, personal experience has led me to accept and reject arguments based on what i feel is true in my own heart.
    I really don't think the almightly gives a flying fig about relgion. I'm not saying that he doenst want us to believe in anything, just that I dont think he really cares about one more than another. From what little I've seen in life, I'm sure that he loves everyone just the same. After all, if I lived in a cave, and all I knew was tree that I considered God, I don't think he would be angry.
    I think the most important thing is that we learn to love each other. It certainly seems like the most sensible thing.
    sorry if this came out all jumbled, its difficult for me to explain.
  16. cydonia Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 6, 2001
    star 5
    That came out pretty well. Good points.
  17. Darth Geist Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 23, 1999
    star 5
    On the subject of the OT Jews' ethnic purity as a requirement for the Messiah: It occurs to me that not only did Moses himself take a Midianite wife (Zipporah), but that he expressly ordered his people to take the Midianite women as concubines (the virgins at least; they'd already slaughtered everyone else). Thus, the Hebrews were not a pure race at the time of Christ's birth--and yet Christ was able to do his job anyway.

    Explain.
  18. cydonia Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 6, 2001
    star 5
  19. IellaWessiriNRI Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 3, 2001
    star 4
    On the subject of the OT Jews' ethnic purity as a requirement for the Messiah

    The issue wasn't ethnic purity. The Messiah had to be descended from Abraham, that was the absolute requirement. Also, in Genesis 49:10, Jacob's blessings to his sons: "The scepter will not depart from Judah, nor the ruler's staff from between his feet, until he comes to whom it belongs and the obediencec of the nations is his." There's also various statements throughout the OT about whose line the Messian would come from.

    So what about ethnic purity? It was more of a religious purity thing. If you think about it, there are two meanings to the term "Jew." One is an ethnic group, the other is a religion. God wanted His people to be kept pure religiously, so that they would not turn to pagan gods. If anything, God's accepting of non-Jewish ancestors of Jesus only serve to disprove claims that He is "racist," or shows any favoritism toward the Jewish people specifically.
  20. Darth Geist Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 23, 1999
    star 5
    "God wanted His people to be kept pure religiously, so that they would not turn to pagan gods."

    And the best solution His infinite wisdom could devise was mass murder?
  21. cydonia Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 6, 2001
    star 5
    What, he had a choice?
  22. IellaWessiriNRI Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 3, 2001
    star 4
    And the best solution His infinite wisdom could devise was mass murder?

    I don't presume to try and understand His infinite wisdom, but I can imagine that He wanted to show the Hebrews how serious He was about not intermarrying with the pagan nations.



    What, he had a choice?

    He had a choice in doing what?
  23. Jediflyer Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 5, 2001
    star 5
    You people need to remember that the bible was written from a flawed perspective (at least the Old Testament). This is the whole reason Jesus had to come down?To correct that view and replace it with the truth.

    In the Old Testament, the Jews took what they knew about God and all their experiences and melded the two together. When you view the Old Testament from a historical Jewish perspective, it might make sense. If you don?t do this, it will just be Greek to you ;)
  24. Quietforce Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 5, 2001
    star 3
    There are some very interesting discussions going on here.

    So, I'm just intervening to say - keep it up!

    I'm too braindead to add something of my own at the moment. Later I shall.
  25. KnightWriter Administrator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 6, 2001
    star 8
    JediMaster, you have no higher authority to declare your opinion any more right than mine. You can be no more certain about your opinion than I can be about mine.

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