This is not the only place I debate stuff, and recently I have talked with a person here about god?s in general. An Orthodox Christian, although I do not believe as he does, he makes a ton of sense. He almost has me convinced that there is a god of some sort (I am still far from convinced that there is a God, but who knows? I will use God to denote the Christian God and god to denote a generic god). He has presented me with several evidences for god which are very hard to argue. Given that I can?t really disprove them, and that they make sense, I can?t just reject them. First: Nearly everyone believes or acts like they believe that there is objective morality to some degree, even if they do not believe in a god. Rape is a good example, we all say it is wrong to, or act like it is wrong to rape. Why? Any reason that you can come up with (it is harmful, it is forcing them something, not their choice, whatever) I can ask why to as well. What makes that logic moral? Basically because we define it as such, and short of getting into a linguistics, there is still nothing fundamentally that makes good good unless there is a god of some sort. Otherwise, it is just a human desire to not harm people or something, and what makes that desire better than wanting to act like a animal? Second: I feel this is not logically sound, but I can?t explain how it is not. We don?t expect things with complexity to normally happen from nothing. Life comes from life, intelligence comes from intelligence, we have never seen life or intelligence or order come from nothing (or something that is neither), yet it had to come from somewhere, or be made by something? Humans have built things, buildings for example, that have order, complexity, etc, and given that life is a bajillion times more complex, doesn?t it make sense that something created it? Third: This relates to the first point. There is nothing in godless origins, like big bang and evolution, that would have life, much less intelligent life, much less moral intelligent life. Finally: Those things can be explained through science or psychology, but if we look at which explanation is simpler, god or the long mental exercises of science, which is simpler? God. Although that conclusions gives no understanding of what god really is, it is rather hard to say that there is no god at that point. So, are these right? I can?t figure out how to really argue them (I still have not gotten my head completely around them anyway), and they make some sense, so I can?t reject them. Has anyone else heard these arguments? Know how these conclusions can be developed to know more about god?