Saga "There is much anger in him"

The "debt" was payed with Anakin's freedom which is all she wanted and that Qui-Gon managed to get. That's it.

 

That's not it. It still leaves an innocent being that helped them enslaved. The cost of freeing her would have been insignificant. It shows a primary weakness of the Jedi and why so many people hated them. Qui-Gon took Shmi's help to further his own interests, in this case finding his precious chosen one. Once she had served his purpose, he forgot her existence. The first thing he should have done when he arrived on Coruscant was send a Republic emissary to go to Tatooine, free her and find her comfortable housing. They could still easily keep Anakin separated from his mother with the assurance that she was freed from a live of slavery.

 

The anger that Luke has is that like his father, he lacks the patience to be a Jedi. When Anakin was impatient, he became angry rather quickly. When Luke becomes angry, it is due to a lack of patience. Anakin wanted to be a Knight because he was impatient with the pace of his training. Luke wanted to start his training because he was impatient with having to eat dinner and wait to meet with Yoda. Neither one makes an effort to try to be patient and instead become hostile. This is what bothers Yoda and why he makes the comparison.

The Council is unaware that Anakin is having visions of his mother. Obi-wan is the only one who knows that Anakin is having dreams and he only dismisses them as dreams, nothing more. Anakin isn't even forthcoming about what he is seeing. If the Council was made aware, then steps would be taken.

 

To whom? And why her in particular? Why not every slave?

What the...?!

No, he didn't. He was stranded and a boy offered to help him.

Another lie.

No, he shouldn't. He should focus on the mission at hand and the people of the Republic. If they are to go free slaves, they are not going to play favorites. Shmi is not above anybody else.

And then what? Free from slavery doesn't make her free from danger. In a sense, once free she's more open to danger. And once in danger, the visions would come, and the problem would remain. She was not a slave when Anakin had his visions. She has been free for quite a while.

 

The basic problem here is that once parents give up their child to the Jedi they have no further contact. That's it.

So the Jedi are doing nothing that they don't always do.

If Qui-Gon had lived I have no doubt he would have done something for Shmi.

Obi-Wan was not going to do that and neither would the Jedi.

 

Shmi was fine until she was freed. Then she went out to pick mushrooms. She could live on Coruscant and be hit by a falling speeder. Or assassinated by Palpatine to provoke a reaction.

 

I disagree.

 

We'll never know, now will we.

 

...they did play favourites, they brought Anakin. Why her? Because she risked her sons life to get them parts for a ship. Of course being a slave means your in less danger...wtf. Do you know what slavery means? You entire existence relies on the whim of your master. Now your just being purposely obtuse.

 

Accusing other posters of lying because they interpret things in a way different to you will not fly. What he is referring to is empirically unknowable because we are not in Qui-Gon's head. He simply interprets what he sees on screen, as do you.

 

The poster is claiming that Qui-Gon used her and that he forgot about her existence which is simply not true (ie: a lie) since the movie proves otherwise. It's not something up to interpretation. It's flat out false.

 

No. It's not. We are never told what Qui-Gon's thoughts are. Hence, they could be anything, everything and nothing. Shmi is never mentioned again by Qui-Gon after they leave Tatooine, and not long after he dies. How you can categorically prove that he continues to think about her is beyond me.

But that is all beside the point. I shouldn't have to explain myself here. The bottom line is that you are to refrain from calling another user a liar because he interprets something differently from you in a movie. This isn't politics. You aren't legislating people's lives here. This isn't a courtroom. You are discussing A SERIES OF MOVIES! Get some freaking perspective. If you can't even talk about a movie with someone without taking it so seriously that you would seriously call someone a liar over it, you should stop discussing movies and perhaps reevaluate your priorities in general. If I see you doing it again, I will ban you.

Edit: this applies to all other users too, obviously.

 

The ROTJ novelization touches on this:

"To be a Jedi, Luke, you must confront and then go beyond the dark side—the
side your father couldn't get past. Impatience is the easiest door—for you, like your
father. Only, your father was seduced by what he found on the other side of the door,
and you have held firm. You're no longer so reckless now, Luke. You are strong
and patient. And you are ready for your final confrontation."
Luke shook his head again, as the implications of the old Jedi's speech became
clear. "I can't do it, Ben."

 

Alexrd yo I didn't even notice that I was having this debate on two separate threads
http://boards.theforce.net/threads/did-qui-gon-have-a-plan-b.50045494/page-8#post-54373398

 

he might have. it would depend on anakin. anakin was okay and stable with his mother in his life. and he wasn't without her. but more likely qui-gon would have tried to find a way to help anakin relinquish his attachment to her.

i think what qui-gon did in separating anakin from shmi seems cold because we're thinking about it as people with attachments. i personally disagree with separating anakin and his mother. but for qui-gon to use his power to free shmi would probably go against the jedi code?

 

Releasing Anakin was for the benefit of Amidala getting to Coruscant and to satisfy Qui Gon's curiosity regarding a prophecy. It is only the belief, not the kowledge, that both of these objectives will ultimately serve a greater good that justifies the use of Jedi powers to free one boy among others from slavery.

If Qui Gon and the Jedi also shared the compassionate belief that in saving one person, you save entire worlds, then freeing Shmi for the sake of Anakin's development would fall into that category.

This is why the Jedi code should not be treated as natural law.

Perhaps Qui Gon, had he lived, would have sought to ensure that Anakin was trained adequately enough to not be held back by attachment. But as a community, the Jedi order don't appear to have had that concerns except to repeat the danger of not letting go. Instead, it's all just "you must" and "you must train yourself".

 

I tend to agree that Anakin's attachment to Shmi, if it was a problem - would have been better solved by "weaning him off her" very slowly, rather than making him go "cold-turkey".

If she'd been on Coruscant, he could have slowly grown less attached to her, rather than being constantly tormented by the thought that she was still in slavery, and what might have happened without his knowledge.

 

That's not compatible with a Jedi's life.

He separated nobody. Anakin chose to go with Qui-Gon.

 

But did he have all of the information to make an informed decision? Part of Anakin's motivation was so he could become powerful & come back & free his mother (& perhaps all of the slaves). He tells her so. Qui-Gon told him that it would be a "hard life" but he didn't explain that Anakin would have to permanently give up all attachment to those he loved. Ie his mother. You could argue that QG was not completely honest with him, or at least not totally forthcoming about all of the sacrifices that Anakin would have to make. He also didn't seem to explain these harsh finer details with his mother. Which is pretty awful when you think about it since it was her decision too. This was Qui-Gon's M.O throughout the whole movie though. To lie, mislead or omit crucial information in order to get what he wanted.

 

At some point he did and yet he stayed with the Jedi for a whole decade.

Ha.

 

What a horrendous justification. "At some point" the 10 year old child who was separated from his mother decided to stay & live by all of their draconian rules. Never mind his parent having a say. And that's after he's on the other side of the galaxy & he has a Sith Lord whispering in his ear corrupting him. If only dodgy Qui-Gon had been open & honest from the start.

If you played a drinking game based on the times he lies during the movie you'd be unconscious by the end.

 

"Horrendous", "draconian rules", "separated from his mother"...

No. There's nothing horrendous at all. No matter how dreadful you try to paint it, the fact is that there was a mother who wanted a better life for her son, a boy who wanted to be a Jedi and that accepted the fact that he had to leave his mother in order to do so and that was warned that being a Jedi is not 'daisies and rainbows' and doing what you want or feel like. They all knew that and they all made a free choice.

More like having the glass waiting to be emptied for the whole movie.

 

Then point me to the scene in TPM where Shmi & Anakin are told that he has to disavow all attachment to those he loves, both literally & emotionally. Forever. I don't think they were told that little nugget of information. Poor Anakin is allowed to believe that he can come back & free her. Skip to the next movie 10 years later & Anakin is tortured by the fact that he still hasn't freed or even visited his mother. Next thing you know this emotional turmoil ruins his whole life. Clearly Qui-Gon "forgot" to give them the standard Jedi Disclaimer with all of the fine print.

 

You want to take this someplace else? This isn't the "did Qui-Gon lie" thread, or the "Shmi deserves to be freed" thread.

 

It's the "how is Luke's anger similar to Anakin's anger" thread, maybe. Along with a dose of "Is Anakin's anger reasonable?"

And "Anakin feels Qui-Gon has lied to him" is an anger reason.
So is "Anakin feels Shmi remaining in slavery is unnecessary and unjust"

Obi-Wan does remind Yoda "Was I any different when you taught me" and Yoda says "no".


When Anakin is Luke's TESB age - he has lost Shmi.
When Luke's in TESB - he has lost the Larses.


So - "bereaved anger" may possibly be a commonality.