1. Welcome, Guest

    Upcoming events: Supanova: Melbourne (10th-12th April), Gold Coast (17th-19th April)

    Oz Comic Con: Perth (11th-12 April), Adelaide (18th-19th April)

Oceania There should be NO Dual Citizenship

Discussion in 'Oceania Discussion Boards' started by The Gatherer, Jul 21, 2003.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. -luigi- Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 26, 2002
    star 4
    simple as that huh?

    Wouldn't you still need some form of governing body to decide the worth of a dollar?
  2. Detonating-Rabbit Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 23, 2003
    star 5
    A love for money...man, how superficial and shallow can you get...?
    Oh well...
  3. MarvinTheMartian Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 31, 2002
    star 5
    Technically, the governemnt doesn't control the value of currency (except in North Korea and some other third world countries, where such policies are considered a great success).

    But it is the responsibility of the government to actually establish currency in the first place, and further, to control how much of it is in the market, which is a decision of the central bank.
  4. Nyder Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 27, 2002
    star 4
    A love for money...man, how superficial and shallow can you get...?
    Oh well...


    Not as superficial and shallow as someone who claims that they are somehow 'above' the want of material possessions.

    If you were offered a million dollars, you would love that very much! If you didn't accept it, you would be a fool.

    At least I am honest.
  5. Nyder Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 27, 2002
    star 4
    But it is the responsibility of the government to actually establish currency in the first place, and further, to control how much of it is in the market, which is a decision of the central bank.

    You don't need a central currency. Government money is just a piece of paper or plastic signed by the Treasurer saying this is worth such and such. You can use anything to exchange value.
  6. MarvinTheMartian Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 31, 2002
    star 5
    It is true, that anything would be able to be used as a medium of value. But without a common currency you would have to use the bartering system, and under such a system there is no guarentee that people will take the money you carry now. In fact they probably wouldn't. The reason that Gold has been a valued metal for so long is that it looked pretty and actually had value to the people that traded in it. But plastic sheets of coloured stuff do not.
  7. Ender Sai Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 18, 2001
    star 9
    Nyder, you are aware that your kind of economic libertarianism is like Communism for the Right - you think it's nice on paper, 100% chance of failing in real life.

    E_S
  8. -luigi- Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 26, 2002
    star 4
    If we went back to the barter system we'd all be living on farms growing our ow veggies and swapping our pigs for chickens (or vice versa)

    How many cows would you have to swap for a car?
    and how many sheep for an xbox?
  9. Detonating-Rabbit Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 23, 2003
    star 5
    Honest, maybe...shallow and superficial all the same. Like hell i would ever be offered a million dollars, so lets be realistic. Besides, find someone who wouldn't accept it. And that doesn't make them beneath you, in any respect.
    Money isn't eveything (like you make it out to be - check your bio...), and I only like to have money cos' I have to support myself with it.
    But there's more to life than money, my friend...

    And I never claimed to be above the want of material possessions. Your bio (and what you have said) just makes it appear that that is all you're after.

    And it would be quite a few cows for a car...I can assure you. ;)
  10. Nyder Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 27, 2002
    star 4
    I made post but it didn't get through. :mad:

    No, I wasn't advocating enforcing a barter system. Of course if people accepted a barter style trade that is up to them. Nowadays, though, it is better to use digital money.

    But you don't need to have Australian dollars. You can have Wal-Mart dollars, McDonalds dollars, Starbucks dollars, Pizza Hut dollars, Sears dollars, Macy's dollars, etc.

    ^Note that all of those are US businesses, he he..
  11. Nyder Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 27, 2002
    star 4
    Nyder, you are aware that your kind of economic libertarianism is like Communism for the Right - you think it's nice on paper, 100% chance of failing in real life.

    You seem so sure of yourself, Ender_Sai. But first you have to consider that all the resources that the Government utilises is taken from production, which fares a lot better under laissez faire capitalism.

    How do you explain capitalism's enormous success even with a parasitic government leeching off it?
  12. -luigi- Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 26, 2002
    star 4
    What about small business Nyder?

    Do we get Joe's hardware dollars? and if so how could they possibly compare in value to McDonalds Dollars?

    How do you explain capitalism's enormous success even with a parasitic government leeching off it?

    That is absurd, to suggest that government impedes Capatalism when infact it supports it (often at the expense of the individual)

    How much money do you think American companies are making out of the War in Iraq?

    It can be claimed however that individual countries (such as the US) support Capatalism in thier own country and impede it in others.

    Western governments are built on Capatalism.
  13. MarvinTheMartian Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 31, 2002
    star 5
    Nyder, you are doing a economics degree for heavens sake, I honestly can not beeleive that you actually advocate what you are saying! It makes no sense, either in real life nor on paper!!!!

    Wal-mart dollars? McDonalds dollars? What exactly the f*** are you talking about?

    In real life, governemnts need the market for the society to remain prosperous and viable, and the market needs governemnt so people don't f*** up the system. Its obviously not that simple, but they are simbiotic in nature to work.

    You seem to perceive relaity in a very black and white way Nyder.



    Anyway this reminds me of the Stacey Orrico song: There's gotta be more to life...!
  14. Ender Sai Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 18, 2001
    star 9
    Nyder, I am sure of myself.

    Sure that socialism is the left's wishful thinking.

    And that your economics are just the right wing equivalent - wishful thinking.

    E_S
  15. Detonating-Rabbit Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 23, 2003
    star 5
    Right wing = individualistic...
  16. MarvinTheMartian Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 31, 2002
    star 5
    From a reductionist viewpoint, yes. And left wing = stalinism.
  17. -luigi- Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 26, 2002
    star 4
    I don't think right wing or left wing is individualistic. Both are taking sides.
  18. Detonating-Rabbit Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 23, 2003
    star 5
    Well...from the viewpoint of my uni lecturer right wing is individualistic...but it is in the context of the music industry. Anyway...I can see how it extends into the political world. Right wing = totalitarianism...and that is pretty individualistic for the leader...
  19. Nyder Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 27, 2002
    star 4
    Whenever I bring up this topic out comes all the crap... Anyway...

    What about small business Nyder?

    Do we get Joe's hardware dollars? and if so how could they possibly compare in value to McDonalds Dollars?


    Joe Hardware doesn't have to have his own currency. He can except any currency he likes as payment.

    How much money do you think American companies are making out of the War in Iraq?

    When I talk about capitalism I mean laissez faire capitalism. Without free markets and voluntary exchange it doesn't exist. Businesses who use the Government to make money are not abiding by market forces because the Government uses force, not voluntary exchange. Do you have a choice whether or not you pay your taxes (without threat of force or robbery)?

    It can be claimed however that individual countries (such as the US) support Capatalism in thier own country and impede it in others.
    Western governments are built on Capatalism.


    You don't 'support capitalism' by robbing people blindly. Capitalism is based on private property. The very thing the Government always does is undermine private property. The Government may give some subsidies to a corporation, but it had to take the money off someone else's earnings in order to do so.

    Wal-mart dollars? McDonalds dollars? What exactly the f*** are you talking about?

    They already do it! What do you think a coupon is? I know that you can't exchange it beyond a McDonalds store, but that's one example.

    When it comes to exchange, it would have to be backed by a universally accepted standard. Most likely gold, silver, or some other valuable commodity.

    Go to Google and type "privatize money"!

    In real life, governemnts need the market for the society to remain prosperous and viable, and the market needs governemnt so people don't f*** up the system. Its obviously not that simple, but they are simbiotic in nature to work.

    I think rules are a good thing. For example, all of the internet protocols are not Government enforced, but seen over by a non-profit organisation.

    There's nothing wrong with protocols. But Government introduced the income tax, which was one of the very things that Thomas Jefferson lambasted. Taxes impede the economy! And so does monopolies. You should know this, Marvin.

    You seem to perceive relaity in a very black and white way Nyder.

    Ha................ha......................ha...




  20. Nyder Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 27, 2002
    star 4
    Nyder, I am sure of myself.

    Sure that socialism is the left's wishful thinking.

    And that your economics are just the right wing equivalent - wishful thinking.

    E_S


    Maybe you should put down that Chomsky book for a second. :p

    Socialism is a totalitarian way of doing things, and the only way it can be achieved is with the total control of the state (the idiots who deny this are the ones with wishful thinking). Basically all of socialism and communism rests on the labour theory of value which is a steaming pile of crap.

    The free market is millions of individuals independently solving problems. You can't say that a free market will work this way or that because it is just too complicated.

    But then again, all I can say is that Milton Friedman and Adam Smith ****ing own you and your pathetic statist values!
  21. Nyder Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 27, 2002
    star 4
    Well...from the viewpoint of my uni lecturer right wing is individualistic...but it is in the context of the music industry. Anyway...I can see how it extends into the political world. Right wing = totalitarianism...and that is pretty individualistic for the leader...

    'Right-wing' means absolutely nothing. The term has been hijacked so many times it has lost its meaning.

    There is only one way to sort it out, and that is the level of Government intervention. So on a scale of economic and social freedom, Australia is higher up the scale then China. The USSR was wayyyy below the scale, whilst Switzerland is a fair way up the scale.

    Notice that the most successful countries have a high degree of economic and social freedom (which basically means the freedom to keep your money and to do what you want without hurting anybody else).
  22. -luigi- Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 26, 2002
    star 4
    Yes but you measure success by economics.
  23. Ender Sai Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Feb 18, 2001
    star 9
    Maybe you should put down that Chomsky book for a second.

    Oh, [face_laugh] Funny. [face_plain]

    Socialism is a totalitarian way of doing things, and the only way it can be achieved is with the total control of the state (the idiots who deny this are the ones with wishful thinking). Basically all of socialism and communism rests on the labour theory of value which is a steaming pile of crap.



    Yes, my obtuse friend, but if you'd understood - note, please, "IF" - what I'd said you'd understand I was saying that your ideas are the right wing version of socialist ideas, because THEY'RE BOTH WISHFUL THINKING AND NEVER GOING TO WORK!!1!!1!~!one1!!

    But then again, all I can say is that Milton Friedman and Adam Smith ****ing own you and your pathetic statist values!

    Wow, 3(0|\|0|\/|1(5 L337 5p43|<!

    Yeah, me and the other 6 billion people on this planet are owned by you, a dead guy, and an unhappy economics with few friends and couple of followers who mostly live in bunkers with lots of guns. Woo-eee, ya got me.

    E_S
  24. Detonating-Rabbit Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 23, 2003
    star 5
    Laissez faire is dead (at least in this country), because the lack of government intervention meant that businesses could screw out consumers and employees here there and everywhere. The government needs to intervene both state and federally, otherwise we'd have exploitation of the work force and so on. I mkean, why else have all these acts been introduced if not to prevent unfair business practices?

    As far as I was aware, left wing = socialist and communist, and right wing = totalitarian, individualist, and capitalistic...and while it may be over used, it is still useful in explaining politics of countries and the like...
  25. Uruk-hai Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Oct 26, 2000
    star 5
    There should be NO Dual Citizenship

    I don't know about that, but I've got two passports, which makes it easy to go to Europe now.

    Except when you leave Australia on one and arrive in England using another, then you get letters from Australian Immigration saying don't do it again.

    Why are they tracking my movements anyway?
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.