Lit Things you don't want to see in the future EU ever again?

Discussion in 'Literature' started by Slowpokeking, Jan 7, 2013.

  1. Fleab88 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 12, 2012
    star 3
    I'm puzzled since it seemed you said the exact opposite earlier. You implied they had no friendship and the PT showed they did not have a friendship. Maybe I misunderstood you earlier then.
  2. Slowpokeking Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 21, 2012
    star 4
    To be fair Leia's character is also weak in the movies, especially compare to Luke and Han.
    Last edited by Slowpokeking, Jan 14, 2013
  3. fett 4 Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Jan 2, 2000
    star 4
    I'd add in Ian Mcdairmid there as well, up until he was given the monster voice in Sith and became Mr Cackles.
  4. Reveen Jedi Grand Master

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    Oct 4, 2012
    star 3
    I think Clones and Phantom we're doomed from the start performance wise because the characters were written in a way that prevented the actors from displaying anything resembling drive, passion, or humour. For Phantom Jar Jar and young Anakin had the most emotion of all the cast, but in the worst way possible, Qui-Gon had a bit of humour to him, but aside from that most of the cast we're a bunch of wet blankets.

    Clones had alot more shouting, but most of it was from an unstable bratty, teenager, not the best way to engage an audience. Revenge was better in this regard, Obi-Wan was more witty and less of a buzzkill, and we actually got a villain who acted like a space opera villian. But it was all crammed into the third act, so it's not emotionally level.

    Casting Sam Jackson as a stern, calm Jedi master was one of the most boneheaded casting choices I've ever seen. He should've been something like a bounty hunter, a cop, or a soldier who could contrast with the calmer Jedi/politician characters. That is assuming that centering the movies around serene monks and boring bureaucrats was a good idea in the first place, which it wasn't imo.
  5. Slowpokeking Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 21, 2012
    star 4
    I think the PT did a good job to show why Anakin and Obi Wan parted away, there are friendship, just not that strong compare to Anakin's feeling toward Qui Gon or Padme.
  6. Fleab88 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 12, 2012
    star 3
    Then you and I actually do agree since that is basically exactly what I was talking about. I only disagreed with you because earlier you said they had no friendship and the PT was making that very clear to clear up the mistake/confusion form the OT.
  7. instantdeath Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 22, 2010
    star 5
    Oh yes, completely forgot. He was great. To his credit, Samuel L Jackson did very well with what little he was given.
  8. Manisphere Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 25, 2007
    star 5
    I liked Lucas' idea of Leia. She was a brash 1930's kind of chick. Carrie Fisher pulled her off despite all that dope she was smoking and the non direction she was given in the first movie.
    Last edited by Manisphere, Jan 14, 2013
  9. Slowpokeking Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 21, 2012
    star 4
    Yeah it's ok to have her in the movie, but in the EU she's something totally different.
  10. instantdeath Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 22, 2010
    star 5
    Leia was a lot more brash in ANH than in ESB or ROTJ, so I think a portrayal closer to the former is the best thing to do. There are of course a lot of reasons both in-universe and out of universe for that; her planet was just blown up, she'd been recently tortured, she'd been raised to be reflexively secretive and naturally is skeptical of people she'd never met suddenly showing up to rescue her, and so on. By ESB she'd probably settled a bit more into a leadership role, which would naturally require a bit more protocol (even in a Rebellion).

    Personally, I dislike it when Leia is portrayed to be exactly like Padme. My favorite recent Leia portrayal is Shadows of Mindor; has an edge, but she's not a complete jerk like she is sometimes portrayed.
    Last edited by instantdeath, Jan 14, 2013
  11. Kyris Cavisek Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 12, 2012
    star 4
    To be entirely honest, in recent books, all feeling for Han and Leia is not captured... They just play out unlike any semblance of them prior
  12. Slowpokeking Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 21, 2012
    star 4
    Well in the EU she became a almost flawless political leader and Jedi Master, her will is even stronger than Luke. That's something too far from the movie Leia.
    Last edited by Slowpokeking, Jan 14, 2013
  13. instantdeath Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 22, 2010
    star 5
    The majority of her EU developments are irrelevant in this case, since this comic takes place shortly after ANH. Characters can and should grow over time, but she's far from that political mastermind at this point. No matter the timeframe, though, I feel authors sometimes struggle capturing the balance between the Anakin and Padme traits in Leia. Interesting that she arguably emulates her fathers personality in the movies, but has to learn to fill her mothers role, where the opposite is true for Luke.
  14. Manisphere Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 25, 2007
    star 5
    I don't think she's a master yet and she left her granddaughter alone in the Millennium Falcon for two weeks with only Threepio and Artoo to look after her. No, she is most certainly the most squandered character in the whole of the EU. It would be nice if she could get at least one novel where she's cool. Where she gets an author who really is interested in her as a character.
  15. instantdeath Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 22, 2010
    star 5
    There's always the upcoming Leia dedicated novel... even though that will be the Rebellion era character we're already really familiar with.
  16. Manisphere Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Aug 25, 2007
    star 5
    I like the idea of it. Don't know the author. I'd hate for Del Rey to try be specifically reaching out to girls with this one. See now a Leia novel by John Jackson Miller would be cool. We'd know in advance that it was going to be cool.
  17. xx_Anakin_xx Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 9, 2008
    star 4
    Well I don't share your opinion of Jaina - Golden's or Dennings or Alliston or Traviss or Luceno or anyone else's Jaina. I have never really liked the way she was portrayed - but it went completely south in Invincible. Same with Mara Jade in Sacrifice and now we have Vestara and Allana - both of whom are near mirror images of Mara Jade and Jaina. Seriously - that is pretty lazy and pathetic writing. Vestara is on the road to become a nice Jeeedi and marry Ben. Will she also revert to her Sith ways and become as evil in the moment before she dies as Ben's mum did? Will she then be a mute Force Ghost? Will Allana kill Ben? She has no brother to murder, but Ben is close enough. Well you get my drift do you not? It is like they have lost all creativity when it comes to the females. Jaina the tom boy who every man wants is unrealistic and her neice, mini-Han, is on the same track.

    If some find these "great woman characters", that is great. But to me, it is a travesty. And it isn't limited to females (i.e., Ben is dull dull dull), but my point was about females because whereas we have many male characters, and a few dull or poorly written ones can be overlooked, we don't have that many continuously reoccurring female characters.
    Last edited by xx_Anakin_xx, Jan 20, 2013
  18. Kyris Cavisek Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 12, 2012
    star 4
    I think SotJ will fix that... Jaina will be written consistently for 3 books they will cement her personality, unless the ST goes a different direction.

    It sounds like you are unready to let go of the Big 3, i want them to retire already
  19. DARTH_MU Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Feb 9, 2005
    star 4
    No hyphenation or fake hyphenation of last names please.
    It's okay to be Mara Jade or Mara Skywalker, or very reluctantly Mara Jade-Skywalker if Ben's name was Ben Jade-Skywalker, but not Mara Jade Skywalker.
    Seriously the current naming convention of SW pleases not me.
    And also, Jaina Solo Fel, SERIOUSLY? Whose idea was it?
  20. Kyris Cavisek Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 12, 2012
    star 4
    Women keep their last name and tag on their new one, their children have only their father's surname...
    Leia Organa Solo
    Mara Jade Skywalker
    Jaina Solo Fel

    But Ben is Ben Skywalker... that is it

    The reason is if someone picks up a book after missing a few and wonder if Jaina Fel is Jaina Solo, the two surnames explain that she got married...
  21. krtmd Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 5, 2012
    star 4
    I don't understand why this is a problem. When I got married, I took my husband's surname and made my maiden name my middle name - just like Mara Jade Skywalker, Leia Organa Solo and Jaina Solo Fel.
  22. EECHUUTA Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 19, 2007
    star 4
    I'm guessing it's not about him being reluctance to let go of the Big Three, but more of how the characters surrounding them end up getting poorly developed.

    Plus he's right about the female SkySolo Jedi. Once they get married and have babies, they end up getting put into these stock female 'roles' and personalities and/or looking like cooky cutter versions of each other.

    Mara Jade before getting married and having baby = Firey and bold.
    Mara Jade after getting married and having baby = Domesticated mommy.

    Vestara as Sith = Independent and dark, is her own woman.
    Vestara as Ben's love interest/wife/mother of child = Likely to turn Jedi, eventually have no identity anymore, and ultimately exist only as a footnote in the Skywalker lineage.

    Jaina as left-alone single = Likely having her own adventures.
    Jaina as the authors see her: 'Every woman is incomplete without a man' = Endless novelistic exposition on Jaina's 'love life, at expense of her character development.'

    It's like they take all of the female stereotypes and liberally apply them to further a character's 'development.' You don't really see this with the men. I don't see a bunch of guys running around, thumping their chest and saying 'Me Ogg go hunt and fight." You see a bunch of different personalities. Plus they don't get railroaded into a final determinate role like you see with most of the women, which allows them to be not as restricted. Guys get to be single, have adventures, and look cool. Girls have to look pretty, have a man, and can't be damaged too much. Plus she is made to have a bay after a while.

    It's why i don't get attached to female characters. They all start to become the same after a while.
    Last edited by EECHUUTA, Jan 21, 2013
  23. Kyris Cavisek Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 12, 2012
    star 4
    See I see Jag as Jaina's house husband now. He gives up his potential to be second fiddle to her. Mara... you are entirely right there.
  24. Kyris Cavisek Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 12, 2012
    star 4
    And Vestara will never be a Jedi, she is sith through and through. The End... She will lay in a forgotten bin for a while, then brought back to be used as a villain when Ben is older and married, like Lumiya
  25. darthbarracuda Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 4, 2012
    star 2
    No more "reborn" people...*ahem ahem Palpatine ahem*

    I've always disliked how the whole Jacen/Jaina/Anakin Solo thing. Everything is too small world in that story. All the main OT characters are still part of the storyline.

    No more superweapons. The Sun Crusher and all those just make the Death Star seem puny. And with the power of destroy star systems with a single bomb...the technology is just way over the top and is basically dooms day. I like to just ignore those things.

    Don't introduce some obscure Force ability. Cause it screws with the whole story of Star Wars. Like, why didn't they use the Force like that back there?