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Things you like and dislike about the Disney era so far? SEE WARNING ON PAGE 7

Discussion in 'Lucasfilm Ltd. In-Depth Discussion' started by DJT, Oct 3, 2017.

  1. PadawanDave

    PadawanDave Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    Nov 13, 2017
    "The Force is Female"

    Rey
    Aphra
    Iden
    Jyn
    That awful Disney Princess cartoon

    Star Wars is nothing but a feminist propaganda machine now. Wouldn't be so bad if it weren't blatant and these characters were actually good. This is what happens you sell to Disney and leave Kathleen Kennedy in charge.

    And of course TFA and bringing JJ back to do IX. Any hopes i had for the ST getting satisfying conclusion are dead.
     
  2. Jester J Binks

    Jester J Binks Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 19, 2016
    Like: JJ Abrams
    Dislike: JJ Abrams
     
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  3. Outsourced

    Outsourced Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 10, 2017
    "Wouldn't be so bad..."

    So, even if these characters were "good", you'd still have an issue with them because they're female?
     
  4. Krueger

    Krueger Chosen One star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 9, 2004
    af afs
     
  5. Jester J Binks

    Jester J Binks Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 19, 2016
  6. WebLurker

    WebLurker Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 12, 2016
    Hmm. Rey is a deuteragonist, with a male character (Finn) filling in the other slott, and another male character (Poe) acting as the third member of the new central trio.

    Doctor Aphra is a comic book character who got her start in a male-centric series (Darth Vader) and earned her own due to being a breakout character and has an all-male supporting cast.

    Iden is the PC of a video game (with one tie-in novel) with several male characters as supporting NPCs.

    Jyn was the lead of Rogue One, but the main supporting characters were all male.

    The Disney Princess franchise has nothing to do with Star Wars.

    Also, the next Star Wars spinoff movie is a Han Solo film. Most of the other rumored spinoff movies are about male characters. A decent number of the new tie-ins have been about male characters.

    So, is Star Wars now a "feminist propaganda machine?" No. First of all, it still very much the same as it was before overall, in terms of style. Secondly, having a more balanced representation, for lack of a better word, of gender is not propaganda (if so, then life is propaganda). At the end of the day, Star Wars isn't a "boys only" club and it never was.


    Well, if you don't like TFA, fair enough, but I've never really understood how Abrams went from being the fan's favorite for directing TFA, to now being seen as a bad choice for the last movie. IMHO, his work on TFA is a good argument that bringing him back for the finale is a good call.
     
  7. anakinfansince1983

    anakinfansince1983 Nightsister of Four Realms star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Mar 4, 2011
    Just a general reminder that this site has a sexism and hate speech policy, and complaints that Star Wars is a “feminist propaganda machine” are not at all appropriate. If (general) you are looking for a place to complain that there are females in your No Gurlz Allowed Treehouse, you are in the wrong place.
     
  8. Master_Rebado

    Master_Rebado Chosen One star 6

    Registered:
    May 31, 2004
    Not disliking anything Disney has done so far.

    Things I dislike I ignore anyways.
     
  9. WebLurker

    WebLurker Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 12, 2016
    That's probably the healthiest attitude to these kinds of things. However, it seems like fans have a hard time putting it into the correct perspective.
     
  10. Ingram_I

    Ingram_I Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 7, 2012
    Not quite sure I follow the idea of "correct perspective", as if we should be...corrected? Like, what, sedation? Doesn't seem all that healthy to me. It's art: people have their preferences, sophistications and standards, and will express as much in favor or against. Simple as that. I for one refuse to engage something in a perpetual daze of acceptance. If I can simply ignore what I don't like about the ongoing franchise in question then, logically, it never actually bothered me to begin with. Having no criticisms because one ignores their criticisms is a plain contradiction. Or, to put it another way, I don't think one hast to ignore what they don't like in order to like what they do like. The two are not mutually exclusive.

    However, if all one dislikes really only amounts to very little in the first place -- a few pet peeves here and there -- then there's no use in obsessing over as much neurotically. If that's all that was meant then, yeah, I agree. I just don't think markedly disappointed fans should go all "THX 1138" either.
     
  11. WebLurker

    WebLurker Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 12, 2016
    That's kind of what I was trying to say. I guess I think that it's too easy to take things too seriously. I've seen some pretty nasty crap from "fans" who don't like such and such, verbally attacking the creators of the product and others. When stuff like that happens, you really need to get some perspective.
     
  12. Ingram_I

    Ingram_I Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Sep 7, 2012
    Well, that sorta thing is always inappropriate, yes.
     
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  13. 11-4D

    11-4D Jedi Grand Master star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 6, 2015
    Dislike: 1) JJ's choices for the direction of the ST. 2) TFA was too fast paced: too much action, too little character and adventure.

    Like: That Rian seems to be doing the best he can with the story and setting.
     
  14. Talos of Atmora

    Talos of Atmora Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Jul 3, 2016
    Well, let's see.

    Films
    The Force Awakens was an entirely mediocre soft reboot masquerading as a continuation that contained little to no value upon repeated viewings. The fact that it also takes characters with more interesting concepts like Finn and wastes him in favor of the increasingly dull Chosen One archetype that Rey is turning out to be disappoints me greatly. Rogue One was a decent foray into a part of the Star Wars universe that had not been previously shown in a feature film. However, it was somewhat diminished by rather unremarkable characters and poor pacing in the first half.

    Television
    As much as I would like to enjoy Rebels, it basically repeats a lot of the faults of TCW with none of TCW's few good aspects which is amusing considering how it tries to tie up so many hanging plot threads from TCW. The entire show is ultimately brought down by an unnecessary self-insert for children that is easily one of the most grating characters in the show, yet another unremarkable cast of characters, a lack of any potent antagonists that aren't either from the saga or mined from Legends with the Inquisitors being yet another waste of potential. This is only made worse by how this takes away from the more captivating aspects of characters like Maul, Obi-Wan, Hera and Kanan (especially). While I did not like much of Dave Filoni's work to begin with, this show is turning out to be the final nail in the coffin as far as my interest in his work is concerned.

    Something more concerned with the actual Rebellion would have been preferable here.

    Comics
    Things look more positive here. I liked Obi-Wan and Anakin, Darth Vader, Kanan,and a few issues of the main Star Wars series. However, the majority here is either egregiously bad or just OK. Lando was alright. Shattered Empire was a big pile of uneventful tedium. Poe Dameron desperately tries to supplant Rogue and Wraith Squadron but fails to be anywhere near as good. Han Solo was kind of mediocre. A lot of the one-shots have been disappointing. I dropped Mace Windu altogether which was sad considering that I was looking forward to that series. Doctor Aphra is entirely uninteresting to me thus far and it shows no signs of improvement. There were also some really bad ones like Princess Leia and Chewbacca.

    Games
    Now, this category has just been entirely abysmal with EA releasing two boring FPS titles that pretty much pale in comparison to the ones that preceded them and have been plagued by the disgusting business practices that are usually associated with Electronic Arts. Considering the history this franchise has with incredible games of all genres, this has been an utterly shameful display.

    Overall
    Pretty bad.

    I was going to do a simpler "like and dislike" post but I found a general overview to be more comprehensive.
     
  15. SpecForce Trooper

    SpecForce Trooper Jedi Knight star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 19, 2016
    I highly doubt the same group is saying that. Some people like JJ; some people don't. I thought he did a crap job in TFA and he shouldn't come back. People who liked his direction are the ones who want him in IX
     
  16. WebLurker

    WebLurker Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Mar 12, 2016

    I suppose. However, I have seen plenty of "Abrams did good with TFA, but it's a mistake bringing him back" comments across the web.
     
  17. SpecForce Trooper

    SpecForce Trooper Jedi Knight star 4

    Registered:
    Jun 19, 2016
  18. Martoto77

    Martoto77 Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 6, 2016

    And there's the other weird one. "TFA is a big missed opportunity and it makes the previous trilogy pointless,...probably ...... unless I find I like the story that it has set up for TLJ and episode IX."
     
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  19. Jester J Binks

    Jester J Binks Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 19, 2016
    That's quite the mischaracterization

    TFA definitely diminished some of the big aspects of the original 6, but ...

    1. You can recognize that, compartmentalize it and move on to accept what you have so far.
    2. It is healthy and thoughtful to actually wait for the trilogy to finish before you make your final verdict.

    The strange thing to me is already proclaiming how much better Rian's SW is than JJ's. TLJ could end up being a ridiculous mess on the level of George Clooney's Batman. Or it could take things you thought were stupid dead ends and blow your friggin' little mind. Or ....

    TFA was like a sugar rush to me. It felt good at first, but you kind of wish it had more nutritional value upon reflection. The benefit of the doubt on JJ's part was lost when there was some confirmation that it was mostly setup without any seriously mapped out destination.

    Adam Driver's performance so far has been downright one of the best in Star Wars. I loved Kylo Ren's setup at the beginning of TFA but kind of didn't care for where it ended up, but Adam's performance tells me that if they place a lot of the big story on his shoulders, it could turn out terrific.
     
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  20. Martoto77

    Martoto77 Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 6, 2016
    Of whom? I'm not characterising all people who have reservations about TFA with that. Nothing about their experience of watching it (eg. sugar rush)

    I'm accurately paraphrasing a sentiment that has been expressed many times : That the state of affairs depicted in the GFFA during TFA is a perversion of what it should have been following ROTJ but with an added caveat that if the continuing story in TLJ and ep IX illuminates TFA and its backstory (i.e. explains it all to them) then TFA won't have been a waste of time and a slap in the face to ROTJ. That isn't showing yourself to be thoughtful. That's showing yoursel;f to be capricious and only willing to profess an open mind, after keeping it closed enough, except to a load of presumption, in order to dismiss the current film out of hand.

    It indicates the fact that some of us superfans, supernerds, whatever, just cannot abide being out of the loop. TFA was heavy on emotion, excitement and hints of ambiguity. It was very light on exposition, save for the crawl. So they are disarmed, particularly of their notions of ownership that fans foster, by the movie not instantly explicating all the reasons why we should be emotionally engaged or if we should be intellectually satisfied. Not because there is no explanation, but because that kind of stuff kills movies like Star Wars. (except for people who have to know everything in the moment)

    People claiming that TLJ is better already is a bit weird. There's enough blatant JJ denouncers to make that not altogether surprising though.
     
  21. Jester J Binks

    Jester J Binks Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Dec 19, 2016
    The "slap in the face" already occurred. It can't really be undone. This is now more about if the ST can save itself in its own isolated trilogy of events. In other words, being able to say to yourself "ok, if I can put that flaw away, can I enjoy it on its own merits?" Well, if Ep. 8 and 9 present merits, then of course we can.

    Movies have flaws. You notice them. You don't pretend they don't exist and then argue against people that see the very same flaws because for some reason we must either love or hate a movie. That's not very mature. I can see many flaws in the PT. Still love them. Still think it was a great trilogy. The biggest flaw, to me, was that it tried to go bigger than the story allowed and got caught up in some traps that maybe a few more revisions would have cured. But I'd rather they come out than wait for Axl Rose's follow up to Chinese Democracy because it has to be "perfect" (and therefore never ready for release).

    Do I not like (and even hate a few) of the Special Edition changes? Yup. Did it make me decide I'd give up on Star Wars? No. I just deal with it. It isn't ruining my life. At worst, my eyes do a roll and then they go back to the film. And if somebody wants to talk about that eye roll moment, why not. They might even have something to say that I find compelling.

    And the writers of Ep. 8 and 9 might even have something I find compelling. It would be childish to think otherwise considering I haven't seen them yet.
     
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  22. Martoto77

    Martoto77 Jedi Master star 5

    Registered:
    Aug 6, 2016

    Only a slap on the face of anyone sitting with their arms folded, secure in their presumption of what shouldn't or couldn't be the state of affairs thirty years after the second death star was blown up with the Emperor in it.

    I was very specific in the response to SpecforcTrooper. Please leave me alone if you have never expressed the notion that "TFA makes the OT pointless unless....." and not turn this into another "but there are flaws." discussion. I am well aware that there are perceived flaws. Don't presume because I argue a certain specific point (which you have waded into with a different argument), that I am unwilling or unable to conceive of any possible issues people may have.

    In case you forgot. I think it's weird when people say, "TFA is a big missed opportunity and it makes the previous trilogy pointless,...probably ...... unless I find I like the story that it has set up for TLJ and episode IX." I am not saying I think it's weird that people didn't like TFA but that they may like the next two episodes.

    So if you didn't say the former, please keep the arguments about what is or isn't a flaw to the threads were we're currently conducting the,
     
  23. Lord Sith Harloxzz

    Lord Sith Harloxzz Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Jun 27, 2016
    Like:
    Potential Spin Off movies like Boba Fett or Kenobi or new live action series

    Dislike:
    The direction that Disney plans for the new trilogy and the franchise Star Wars became the new Marvel and less Star Wars
     
  24. Qui-Riv-Brid

    Qui-Riv-Brid Force Ghost star 5

    Registered:
    Apr 18, 2013
    More likely it also gets taken off ANH so none of them have it.
     
  25. ForcePushUp

    ForcePushUp Jedi Padawan star 1

    Registered:
    Oct 19, 2016
    Like: Renewed interest in the brand and clearly giving a hoot about the quality of the film's the churn out.

    Dislike: Oversaturation. Its so weird to me to have a Star Wars movie every year. I'm always a believer of "less is more". Doing one every year kind of takes the specialness out of what should be a big event.

    I mean I should be chomping at the bits for The Last Jedi, but Force Awakens was only two years ago, and I just had Rogue One last year, so its not like I am starved for more content. And I'm not even counting the glut of comics and novels that have come out under the new Disney initiative.

    I talk about it with Pro Wrestling, and I'll use that analogy here. To me, the WWE has oversaturated their own brand. With three hour Monday night shows, two hour Tuesday night shows, various streaming WWE network specials, a schedule of PPV events that exceeds an average of more than one a month, and touring live events, the WWE brand produces more content than any one member of the audience could be expected to keep up with. I remember back in my childhood when there would be weekly one hour shows with mostly squash matches, and a handful of PPV events and Saturday Night's Main Event specials a year. Because I rarely saw Hulk Hogan wrestle, it was a special event whenever he did. John Cena never got that same benefit because I saw him wrestle every single week and I just got sick of him. Nowadays, I get way more excited for something like Lucha Underground because its only one 1 hour weekly show with seasonal breaks. They give me a chance to miss them a little bit and come back excited for more.

    That isn't to say Star Wars is anywhere near that level of oversaturation, but it is kind of the same idea. I'd be more excited for upcoming projects if there weren't so many of them. Maybe if they had done VII, VIII, and IX first and then focus on doing stand alone projects like Rogue One after that was done and keep churning them out every 2-3 years instead of one right on top of the other. Just saying.
     
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