PT Thinkin' 'Bout Jar Jar

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by Cryogenic, Feb 3, 2013.

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  1. Placeholder Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 30, 2013
    star 4
    I just don't see a problem with the invasion as shown. The landing ships approaching the planet and landing with the fighter cover overhead is actually one of my favorite scenes in the movie. There are lots of things to bash the movie for, I just don't think the invasion itself is one of them, I think it's one of the better aspects of the movie.

    Now the liberation of Naboo, there is all sorts of room for bashing there.
  2. DarthBoba Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 29, 2000
    star 9
    my biggest problem is the approach the droid army takes coming into Theed-they're all bunched up! Rogue Squadron would eat some amateur tactics like that alive. :p
  3. Placeholder Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 30, 2013
    star 4
    As I said earlier, it really harkens to the Germans in WWII. It's like the fall of Paris.
  4. Roberto Calrissian Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 26, 2012
    star 4
    When you see how drastically Jar Jar role was diminished in episode 2 and just a few backgrounds shots of him in 3 it tells me they learned their lesson and I have complete faith episode VII will have no Jar Jar type character thus starting the new trilogy in a positive note. But yeah after all these years as you get older you just fast forward Jar Jar's scene when watching the movie. No yelling no moaning just a quick fast forward and enjoy the rest of the movie, gets the problem solved.
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  5. DRush76 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 25, 2008
    star 4

    What is it about Jar Jar that disturbs people so much? I don't know how many times I have asked this question. And every time I do, people evade the question and simply state about how much they hate Jar Jar. Why would a clumsy Gungan generate so much hate? It makes no sense whatsoever.
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  6. Placeholder Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 30, 2013
    star 4
    I agree 100%.
  7. Cryogenic Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 20, 2005
    star 4
    It was also in the TF's -- Nute and Rune's -- profile to behave in that ordered, precise, by-the-book way. Granted, their whole thing about blockading Naboo was them pushing things to the edge, but they still thought that what they were doing was "perfectly legal", which Nute reminded the "ambassadors" of in the opening scene. They put their trust in Sidious for permission to do the extra-legal stuff, which he assured them he would make legal, but there's no reason to believe they didn't remain itchy about the entire affair or want to follow the rules of engagement. The film actually shows how they put up a bit of a boastful front with Amidala, but are privately desperate for a smooth, no-more-chances-than-we-need-to-take-getting-there end.

    Anyway, this is all off-topic, really. Though, I appreciate you offering a reasonable, cogent defence of the film on this matter.

    I'd sorta like my thread to stick to Jar Jar, if that's okay with everyone.
    Last edited by Cryogenic, Apr 2, 2013
  8. Roberto Calrissian Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 26, 2012
    star 4
    Meesa this , Meesa that. I understand trying to add a funny character but he didn't work. Walking around Tattoine and sticking your tongue out and getting your mouth numb, or getting you tongue stuck on a food, or touching a robot that came to life all NOT FUNNY. He's no R2 or 3PO who can be clumsy but served an important role in the original and 3PO had clever& funny dialogue Jar Jar has none of that.
    Last edited by Roberto Calrissian, Apr 2, 2013
  9. Cryogenic Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 20, 2005
    star 4
    I find Jar Jar pretty damn funny on all those occasions. The tongue one -- when it goes numb -- is funniest because of how Jar Jar appears to be saying "ravished"... "my tongue is ravished"... "ravished, ravished, ravished"... or some-such. It's quite rude ("how wude"). I really should see what the subtitles say. And how Jar Jar tries to be such a trooper after Padme frees his hand, giving the "thumbs up", even though he hashed it at the end, and it seemed that Anakin was about to turn the engine on regardless.

    Anyway, one of the absolute funniest moments has to be when Qui-Gon picks Jar Jar up after Sebulba knocks him down. I dunno, but something about the image of the broad-shouldered Liam Neeson, pulling up this six-foot-tall floppy-eared, clumsy CG frog alien, is just hilarious. And his stern rebuke: "Nevertheless, the boy is right. You're heading into trouble."

    I think there is actually a lot of fun, clever, subtle humour that comes from Jar Jar and the way people react to him. Padme's rapport with him is terrific. And Qui-Gon is an excellent straight man to the zany Gungan. Then there is everyone else, who all seem annoyed or rattled by him in some way. It really is quite funny.

    Oh... and Jar Jar wrecking Watto's shop? That's a riot. I admit, I probably have the mentality of a five-year-old, but Jar Jar falling over off-screen and clattering into a load of stuff and going "waaaaah!" -- making a very loud noise -- after Qui-Gon says they're leaving has always cracked me up. I have a bit of an accident-prone granddad who we sometimes tell tales about. On one occasion, which I did not witness, he was helping decorate at our old house and he fell down some step ladders. He didn't fall far and wasn't seriously hurt (it was also indoors and he landed on carpet), but according to my mom and my uncle, his face was a picture. As he fell, a packet of crisps he'd been devouring went flying, and he landed in some at the bottom. Pure Jar Jar. Older stories involve him inadvertently driving over a toolbox with his pristine Jag and once forgetting his pipe by driving off with it still resting on the car roof. His expressions -- facial and vocal -- when telling stories of his own are pretty amusing, too. I've had to film him a few times just to get some of this stuff on video. Due to a recurrent breathing problem in recent years, my uncle has also renamed him "Darth". And my granddad, for the record, dislikes the prequels ("Rubbish, absolute rubbish"); but he has some love for the originals.

    So, yeah... I'm down with the Jar. Life actually has its share of goofy goings-on. For an epic saga with so many shadings, Jar Jar makes it more palatable, believable, and beautiful. There.
    Last edited by Cryogenic, Apr 2, 2013
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  10. Roberto Calrissian Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 26, 2012
    star 4
    I really hope you're being sarcastic about finding him hilarious....
  11. Cryogenic Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 20, 2005
    star 4
    And if I'm not, what ya gonna do?

    Crap in ma Cornflakes?
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  12. Roberto Calrissian Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 26, 2012
    star 4
    Nope it's a lost cause man it is what it is
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  13. Alexrd Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 7, 2009
    star 5
    I'd say good taste.
  14. Master Elaine Nega Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 30, 2013
    star 1
    You can say what you want, but I' ll stay true to my opinion. I' m sorry to say, but you can' t say what' s good or bad either because no one in this world is so absolute to set the definition of good and bad. Also, I don' t mean to be rude, but please could you stop talking like that Phantom Edit is better than the original? I make fanart as well, but I admit it' s just my very random fantasy and never claim to be better than George Lucas.

    I agree.
  15. Alexrd Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 7, 2009
    star 5
    What lesson? The fact that Jar Jar was given a minor (although relevant) role in Episode II when he wasn't even needed to begin with, tells us how much George doesn't rely on haters/bashers feedback when it comes to decide what's going to be in the movie.
    Last edited by Alexrd, Apr 3, 2013
  16. janstett Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 29, 2004
    star 3
    Gee, a giant unintelligible cartoon rabbit who steps in the poopie and commits just about every cheap, cliche slapstick pratfall save tripping over a couch, stuck into a Star Wars movie, I can't figure out why people don't like it. Just about the only lower form of comedy would have been Jar Jar getting kicked in the balls.

    I felt like I was watching Perfect Strangers. Ben Burtt should add a laugh track to TPM on the next re-release.

    [IMG]
    Last edited by janstett, Apr 4, 2013
  17. Jcuk Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 16, 2013
    star 4
    Yeah it baffles me aswell. And Lucas DID learn his lesson, otherwise the cretinous creation would've been 'dellow felegating' and 'how wuding' his way all through the PT. probably would've been on Mustapha in Sith. 'Don't do it Ani!' Messa not digging the darkside. Mind you could've been cool, we could've seen Anakin just unceremoniously chop his head off!
  18. janstett Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 29, 2004
    star 3
    Please drop the relativistic we're-all-winners participant trophy nonsense. Good and bad are pretty well set by convention and tradition based on reasons that are usually sound, especially in the film business. What do you think they study in film school? Story telling is one of the oldest art forms on the planet, with thousands of years of history. There are rules; a surprisingly restrictive set of rules, to make a good movie. George Lucas especially did a paint-by-numbers on striking emotional chords with the audience (as outlined by Joseph Campbell's monomyth). It almost feels like cheating, but learn what these rules are and then apply them to successful movies and you'll find something amazing, that all these movies are cynically hitting these points that you are programmed to respond to. But that's because over thousands of years we've established what epic storytelling is and is not. That's why George's strange decision to heavily feature a character who belongs in a Three Stooges movie went so wrong and seemed so out of place.

    How the same man who struck all those right chords in ANH could turn around and miss them so badly in TPM is what shocked people.

    Don't be so afraid of The Phantom Edit. Watch it once. Consider it an educational foray. You may even like it.

    And it's not even right to call it fan art. Phantom Edit was done by a professional film editor from what I recall. And I'll remind you ANH was saved in editing by George's wife Marcia. How a film is edited is very, very important, and that's the point that Phantom Edit drives home.

    I have only watched it once, and yes I do watch TPM from time to time. Phantom Edit really drove home how unnecessary Jar-Jar was, and once you realize that, you realize he was tacked on as a cynical ploy for one or more reasons which I won't elaborate upon, but if you remember George Lucas' proficiency as a marketeer and exploiter of his properties it will become self evident. And worse the film's pacing and flow suffer as a result of this addition.

    Then, and only then, you may have an epiphany. I'll share it with you. George Lucas sacrificed the movie's pacing and flow in order to have Jar Jar in the audience's face, for the cynical demographic/marketing reasons. It shows George didn't understand what was great about his own creation, a point that would be made and remade in the prequel trilogy, but never with as much resonance as with Jar Jar. It makes you consider that George may have been taking a lot of credit for other people's work all these years.
    Last edited by janstett, Apr 4, 2013
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  19. Jcuk Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 16, 2013
    star 4
    ^^^^the nail has been well, and truly, hit on the head^^^^
  20. Random Comments Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 25, 2012
    star 5
    "And it's not even right to call it fan art. Phantom Edit was done by a professional film editor from what I recall. And I'll remind you ANH was saved in editing by George's wife Marcia. How a film is edited is very, very important, and that's the point that Phantom Edit drives home."
    It's still fan art. By definition. Because its not official, it's not the actual film. It's done by a fan, who (apparently) happens to be a professional film editor. Still a fan work.

    On topic,
    Personally, I thought Jar-Jar was fine...although I'd have liked something to happen to him in III...
  21. Master Elaine Nega Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 30, 2013
    star 1
    All rules and definitions are created by people. People are not perfect, neither their minds are perfect, and neither the rules are perfect. Why does one have to follow them without question if they were thought out by the same people? Also, I know lots of films which have broken dozens of these rules, yet they are awesome. And I also know films that followed many of these rules, yet I think( and people agree with me) they are bull****( sorry for swearing, it' s just lack of a better word) . In fact, my literature teacher has been constantly teaching me the rules of literature( I know it' s not cinematography, but it still has similarities) and analizing a story according to them ever since I started high school. If I won' t learn them, she will shout at me so that will want to climb under the table. And since it' s unwise to upset her, I think it' s better to study all these rules concerning literature. In fact, some years ago I wanted to go to filming school after finishing high school, but I later realized it' s a naive dream to fullfill in my country, because in my country cinematography is in very poor condition. So before you think I' m some uneducated girl who doesn' t know anything about cinematography and literature, you should know me better. I know all these sets of rules, I just don' t think it' s necessary to follow them, and I prefer to rely on my own mind instead of what the others already thought out. Also, I' d like to remind you that all the great discoveries in art, science and history started from the point that the researcher questioned rules and common truth. Some even valued imagination more than logic. So don' t be afraid to live against rules, because sometimes they just hold people back. And when it comes to cinematography, I strongly don' t recommend to read Red Letter Media reviews. People who wrote them are humorless bores. ;)

    Well, but I don' t think the editor had copyrights. He wasn' t a part of the crew, and just because he is a professional editor, doesn' t make The Phantom Edit official( unless he really had copyrights to do it, or did it with Lucas' permission.

    Actually I don' t choose films by other' s recommendations. I choose what to watch if it interested me. If you say something I' m going to watch is crappy, first let me watch it, make my own conclusions and only then I' ll say if I agree or disagree with you. If you strongly recommend me to watch something, but I' m not really interested in it, I think first I' ll watch something I' m interested in, and only then follow your recommendations. I view such edits only as an optional perception of the film for those who are not satisfied with the original. I' m satisfied, so I' m not interested. If it was an edit of Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows with some additional scenes I consider important, then I think I would' ve watched it( because I' m not satisfied with the last HP films, think It could' ve been better). But now I have something that interests me much more, so sorry but no.
  22. Jcuk Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 16, 2013
    star 4
    Just out of curiosity. Which film was the very 1st Star Wars film you saw?
  23. Master Elaine Nega Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 30, 2013
    star 1
    TPM. Stupid purists outlook doesn' t work on me * Watto voice* XD You think if I was born 30 years ago and grew up on the OT, I would' ve viewed it different? I doubt it. I' m adaptive to everything new, and I wouldn' t start bitching about TPM because it was in a different style. In fact, I saw TPM only 2 years ago, I' m generally young SW fan, but I was already 14, and unlike many purists I didn' t bitch about Jar Jar like a 5 year old XD
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  24. Jcuk Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 16, 2013
    star 4
    Woah slow down! I only asked a question. If the TPM was your 1st experience of Star Wars then naturally you won't want to hear any criticisms of it.
  25. Master Elaine Nega Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 30, 2013
    star 1
    I' m just not interested in criticism. I have my own opinion, and I always live only by my own opinion. I' m myself, not a copy of others. I don' t read any reviews, I can write one based on my feelings if I want. I read reviews only if I' m curious what others think. But I don' t want to read these puristic sobs, they' re like an unnecessary spare part inside my memory. I have more interesting things to overload my brain with.
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