PT Thinkin' 'Bout Jar Jar

Discussion in 'Prequel Trilogy' started by Cryogenic, Feb 3, 2013.

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  1. Master Elaine Nega Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 30, 2013
    star 1
    Thanks. I haven' t seen the film myself, but I guess " illusion" is the word that can describe the situation in the Republic. By that time, the Republic itself was a false utopia. At the first look, we see that it looks like a place much better than our world. The politicians like Amidala and her decoy( I know, Sabe isn' t actually a politician, and she mostly does Padme' s biddings, but still, she temporarily pretended to be a Queen) really care about their people, there is democracy and everyone is used to doing everything in a civilized manner. Most people, including Amidala, minus Qui - Gon Jinn in some situations, act as if they lived in a paradise located in the physical world most of their life.But it is also an illusion most of the people in the Republic have. Amidala and her Council are people who really suffer for their planet, but still, they are naive due to this illusion they grown up seeing, and really Amidala is one of the few leaders who has such devotion. She( here I mean the decoy) realises it when she arrives on Coruscant, seeing how really corrupt everyone is. And when she sees that really there is no hope, she takes a risk to make a stand, because she has nothing left to lose. The Senate won' t help her in time, so she decides to form an alliance with the Gungans, in which they will stand together for their planet. There is no other way, so she should try the last one, even though the odds are very little. But I guess it' s off topic.
  2. Cryogenic Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 20, 2005
    star 4
    It was a play before it was a film (several films). One of Shakespeare's more well-known plays, but not his most popular, or necessarily the easiest to get one's head around -->

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Tempest

    It makes further sense when you see Lucas' nods in TPM to "Forbidden Planet", one of the more impressive sci-fi films of its day, which is widely considered to be a re-make of the Shakespeare play. Akira Kurosawa, a film-maker with huge impact on George Lucas, also re-made a couple of Shakespeare plays ("Macbeth" > "Throne Of Blood"; "King Lear" > "Ran"). Though, as with Star Wars, there's a lot more to those "re-makes" than that.

    I should add that Obi-Wan -- and later Qui-Gon -- sense something amiss through the Force. And an actual storm rages (the titular element of "The Tempest"), forcing Qui-Gon, Padme, Jar Jar, and Artoo to divert to Anakin's hovel, where Threepio gets introduced and meets Artoo, and where the issue of podracing is brought up, turning Star Wars into more of a religious drama, as a simple respite transforms into a passover meal, before the big race and ultimate crucifixion.

    Good reflections there, though. Lucas obviously plays with meaning and shifting layers of deceit in the film. For example, Valorum is actually addressing the decoy when he stuffily says, "It's an honour to finally meet you in person". And Lucas' screenplay is sure to offload the admonition "be mindful" to the viewer several times over. The film is a lot more jolly, brusque, and light than Shakespeare's play, but it definitely takes a few cues from it -- there are resonances there -- if you will.

    Things like bubbles, chrome, glass doors, floating pods, round chambers, marbled rooms, cascading waterfalls, large ravines, mirages, mists, masks, black tables, flowing robes, sliding doors, dangerous caves, and poop and fart jokes also feature. It's a potent mix. Far more lavish and extraordinary, in many ways, than what Lucas managed in the OT. I think Jar Jar both jars and fits into this movie, and this saga, quite nicely.
    Last edited by Cryogenic, Apr 12, 2013
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  3. Master Elaine Nega Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 30, 2013
    star 1
    I heard about that play in school, but my study of Shakespeare didn' t focus on it. And i just didn' t recognize the name.
    Also, agree about Jar Jar.
  4. Gamiel Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 16, 2012
    star 5
    I think his grammar is excellent, for one who speak naboo-creole
  5. Darth Dominikkus Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 5, 2013
    star 3
    I don't enjoy how they speak in the first place.[face_dunno]
  6. Tornado Wrangler Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 22, 2013
    star 1
    Ok, i don't have the hours it would take to read through this entire thread, so forgive me if this has already been suggested:

    What if he would have been more like . . . Han Solo?

    Also, loose the second "Jar" and get a deeper voice.

    The character's situation is set-up so he could have been a outlaw. Instead of being banished because he was "clumsy", as you'sa might'en be sayin', he could have been banished for criminal activity. Not anything malicious or harmful to people. Maybe for running an illegal bongo racing circuit.

    Instead of being a fearful klutz, he could have been a tough renegade. Run through the movie in your head with that mindset and think about what could have been different. On Tatooine, maybe Jar could have come to Anakin's aid against Sebulba instead of the other way around. And, he could have helped him upgrade and modify his racer.

    On Coruscant, he could have been at Amidala's side during the Senate meeting, and spoke up in her defense when they challenged her word, maybe getting forcefully removed after trying to jump over to the trade federation's podium.

    Back on Naboo, Jar could have actually LED the army competently instead of by accident, and perhaps somehow even given his life to save Padme or Anakin.

    Agree? Disagree? What else could have turned one of the most hated Star Wars characters into one of the most beloved? And what other ways could we have seen it play out during the movie?
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  7. Avnar Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 20, 2007
    star 2
    Worst character ever put on film.
  8. Gamiel Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Dec 16, 2012
    star 5
    To clarify what I want to say is that Jar-Jar speaks a creole language and they are usually made up by the words from one language, though there are often clear phonetic and semantic shifts, and the grammar from an other: in the gungans case basic and old gungan. So Jar-Jars grammar may be bad from a basic perspective but since he dose not speak true basic it is no real problem with it.
    It is actually quite realistic:)

    But if some dislike the way he speaks, well, to each one his own[face_peace]
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  9. Placeholder Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 30, 2013
    star 4
    I tend to agree with that.
  10. Alexrd Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 7, 2009
    star 5
    It would lose his purpose.
    Last edited by Alexrd, Apr 28, 2013
  11. SweetZombieJesus Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 12, 2013
    star 2
    Ultimate pandering and biggest f.u. To the audience ever.
  12. Darth Chiznuk Chosen One

    Member Since:
    Oct 31, 2012
    star 5
    He would have been a rehash of a popular character instead of creating something original. Not nearly as interesting IMO.
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  13. Chainmail_Jedi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 26, 2013
    star 2
    100% pure opinion, and nothing else, being falsely presented as fact.
  14. PiettsHat Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 1, 2011
    star 4
    Where was anything Cryogenic said presented as fact? Those of us who take the time to read what is posted note that he said "I think," not "it is objective fact."
  15. Chainmail_Jedi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 26, 2013
    star 2
    He passed off that the PT was more extraordinary than the OT as fact (which I lawl at). Nowhere in that sentence does he say "I think", instead, he just goes ahead and states it.
    Last edited by Chainmail_Jedi, Apr 28, 2013
  16. Cryogenic Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 20, 2005
    star 4
    And the last line of your signature reads:

    "I hate the Prequels. They were awful. Worse than Jaws 4"

    A blunt proclamation that appears under each and every one of your posts.

    In that, I choose to assume that you are merely giving your own opinion, rather than stating facts and setting the world to rights.

    Apparently, you don't grant me the same courtesy.

    * * *

    "Lawl" all you want; some might be lawl-ing back.
    Last edited by Cryogenic, Apr 28, 2013
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  17. Chainmail_Jedi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 26, 2013
    star 2
    Again, "blunt" is your opinion, yet you continue to confuse it with fact. "Accurate" would be my opinion. And your argument is completely void, because a sig and a post are not comparable.
    Last edited by Chainmail_Jedi, Apr 28, 2013
  18. PiettsHat Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 1, 2011
    star 4
    He said nothing regarding objective truth. Indeed, anything you read into that statement would immediately be contradicted by the fact that his very next sentence begins with the words "I think." And, really, would you have us append the words "I think" or "in my opinion" to every statement we make? That would be absurd. Cryogenic was merely expressing his thoughts on the prequels, just as you do in your signature, and thus his comparison is apt.
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  19. Chainmail_Jedi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 26, 2013
    star 2
    If I don't say "I think" or "In my opinion" (followed by a no offense) practically before everything I write, I get reported and then banned, so yes, you need to append the words "I think" or "In my opinion" because around here on these boards, regarding Star Wars, freaking Star Wars, people get more offended than they do regarding race or religion.

    And, his comparison isn't apt. It's like comparing an opinion expressed in a debate to an opinion expressed on a T shirt. They aren't comparable.

    Actually, I like reading most of Cyrogenic's posts (when he isn't trying to be funny). Most of the ones regarding what he perceives as symbolism in the PT makes me laugh so hard. Kind of like George's 3 PT films, they make me laugh, and especially the parts he was trying to be serious (like the dialogue). Oh, that's just my opinion though, please don't be offended. By somebody random on the internet.
    Last edited by Chainmail_Jedi, Apr 28, 2013
  20. PiettsHat Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 1, 2011
    star 4
    Hypocrisy much? You're the one who butted into Cryogenic's conversation with another poster --Master Elaine Nega -- and started getting offended at what he had posted, although he had clearly used the words "I think" within his post, indicating that it was well and truly his opinion.

    More to the point, you did not raise objections to any other posters who gave their opinions with no qualifiers, such as Avnar who simply stated "Worst character ever put on film" with no repercussions or negative commentary whatsoever.

    So stop with your pathetic persecution complex.
  21. Tornado Wrangler Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 22, 2013
    star 1

    Near as I can tell, his purpose as far as the plot goes is to connect our main characters with the Gungans so they can fight the droid army at the end. He could have done that without being quite so annoying for the older viewers.

    I'm not Jar Jar hater. I know he was put in as comic relief for the younger audience. I'm ok with that. I was just saying imagine how the movie would have been perceived differently had Jar Jar been given more courageous and heroic qualities. He had positive qualities, just not heroic.

    I think the perceived problem with Jar Jar stems from, in my opinion, the target age of the movie. I would put it around 7-10 years old. When 30 year olds go see this movie and think it's for them, then Jar Jar seems very out of place. If you go see it with the idea that it is a kids movie, and that it might have some stuff you enjoy as well, then the movie, and Jar Jar's presence, seems much more valid.

    In fact, if I had to bet on the age group that loved all the prequels the best, it would be those born in 1992. They were 7 years old when TPM was released, 10 years old for AotC, and 13 for RotS. Perfect ages to love those movies the most.
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  22. Chainmail_Jedi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 26, 2013
    star 2
    Who said I was offended? It seems falsely reading into things is common around here.




    HMMMMMMM....I wonder why I didn't raise an objection to an attack on Jar Jar? That's a really tough one. Let me think about it for a moment. Alright, I'm done thinking about it.
    Last edited by Chainmail_Jedi, Apr 28, 2013
  23. PiettsHat Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 1, 2011
    star 4
    Yes, that does seem to be quite often the case. We should all take more care to note the differences between declarations of fact and opinion.

    In my experience, when one is irked about perceived "double standards," it's best not to employ them yourself as it tends to undercut your argument. Just some friendly advice.
  24. Chainmail_Jedi Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 26, 2013
    star 2
    Oh please, this is freaking Star Wars. I'm not making an argument, I don't even care what you say. Why do you ALWAYS insist that I am making an argument? You can't really argue about opinions over a piece of fiction. That's asinine. Stop insisting everything is an argument. It's not.
    Look, you can have your own opinions (but don't try and pass them off as facts ;) ) about movies that in my opinion were extremely poorly written, poorly directed, and in some cases poorly acted, and I'll have mine. If you enjoy that sort of thing, good for you. Whatever floats your boat.

    Again, no offense is intended. This is all my opinion.
    Last edited by Chainmail_Jedi, Apr 28, 2013
  25. PiettsHat Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jan 1, 2011
    star 4
    Oh, I wasn't saying anything about your opinion of the prequels. My point was simply that if you are trying to say that there is "bias" in terms of moderation and/or reception of comments on the boards -- as was evidenced by your claim that you had to:

    "say "I think" or "In my opinion" (followed by a no offense) practically before everything I write, I get reported and then banned, so yes, you need to append the words "I think" or "In my opinion""

    That you would do well not to employ double standards yourself. Again, I just want to clarify, that my statement about "undercutting your argument" had nothing to do with your opinion concerning the prequels. Rather, I was addressing your claim about bias. Just wanted to make sure we're on the same page regarding that.

    Not everything's an argument -- you're right about that. But I would hope that everything would be open to discussion as these are, after all, discussion boards.

    Anyway, I think Jar Jar's a pretty cool guy. He kills droids and is afraid of everything.
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