Discussion in 'Star Wars Community' started by DarthIntegral
, Oct 9, 2007.
There are three Rogue Squadron Leaders in this match.
Never thought I'd see that.
You know it's not a given that you'll win this faceoff, Ken? That Gavin and Tycho is a trump of insane skill whose starfighter experience probably far surpasses that of yours(while skill is probably somewhat equivalent since Han is just NOT going to do anything but rival these guys in ship specific skill), right Ken? Because if you do, I can go ahead and judge right now.
Cool then. I'll take Gavin and Tycho. I love Luke and think he's the best pilot in the galaxy, but I think the combination of Tycho and Gavin isn't going to be beat here.
EDIT: Wait is it cause of cohesion or experience? Or...skill, I guess maybe? Or something.
I suppose I could make an argument after that, if necessary.
Well I think Tycho Gavin is a great combination, but Luke and Han have immense cohesion of their own. I think it deserves to go to a third, because Luke is a top three pilot at least - Tycho's accuracy is otherworldly but Han's evasion is too, so skills make this a difficult matchup. Again, to a third.
Mainly, it's because, IMO, Luke > Tycho > Gavin > Han. And, some added cohesion and experience help push Gavin/Tycho over the top. Not that Luke and Han don't have good experience and good cohesion, it's just that Gavin/Tycho have it just a smidgen better in both categories. .
Ah, okay. Well, I'm gonna go play some softball, and then I'll post something.
THAT'S A LONG SOFTBALL GAME!!! LOL
EDIT: IT'S ACTUALLY NOT THAT LONG, I MISREAD THE TIME AND THOUGHT IT WAS LONGER. ZIZZ FTL.
Well, now it does seem like a crazy long time.
But it was more than one game. And then I had to eat. And...then I ran out of excuses.
SO, ZIZZ FTW
Mainly, it's because, IMO, Luke > Tycho > Gavin > Han.
Well, that's roughly how I'd see it too, so I wouldn't consider that too much of a problem.
Really, though, if anybody thinks Han Solo is gonna be the weak link here, they're kidding themselves-- the sole fact that he's with Luke ups his value a Hutt-fold (not that I think Hutts can actually be folded). Not only can he match everyone in straight skill, but he has been flying longer than everybody else-- entering official military service in The Paradise Snare before Gavin was even a wokling, and earning a ridiculous reputation just in that service before Celchu even reported to Prefsbelt.
Of course Tycho/Gavin have their loads of experience, too-- if they didn't, this match would've been like blastering Gungans in a barrel. In fact, everyone in this match has insane amounts of skill and experience, and trying to hash it all out or compare it would pretty well take us to Ludicrous Speed. Add in the complexities that go along with them both being trumps, and we'd go to Plaid.
So, rather than do that, and type out one gorax of an argument for the whole thing, I'll just summarize a few for why Luke/Han win this match.
The "Who's taking Rogue Five?" Argument
Luke is definitely the best individual in this matchup, to put it simply. Neither of the opposing trump is going to be able to straight-up outfly him alone, and for them to take him out, it's going to take both working against him together.
The problem with that can be summed up in two words-- Han Solo. To think that he's going to just float idle in space while two former Rogue Leaders double up on his old pal would be a first-degree felony in the Court of Inty. Similarly, to count him out right at the beginning of the match as if Celchu and Darklighter are just going to blow through him is to commit the same offense against Luke himself.
Really, the only reason Han Solo doesn't simply Chalk every other pilot on the board not named Skywalker is because much of his flying has been done in a stock freighter. Of course, that's even more testament to his skills because he flies it like a snub, but it also means he generally has a gunner in combat. Put him against Tycho/Gavin alone and sure he might not win, but he would give them a Corellian Hell of a time keeping him in that targeting box.
Here, he's not alone. The struggle inherent in trying to keep Han Solo in your sights is magnified more than a dozen parsecs by the fact that he's paired with one of those Skywalkers. And yeah, he might still go down before the match is over, but he's gonna draw it out longer than a month of Wookiee Life Days-- giving Luke all the time and maneuverability he needs to turn a trump into a boom.
The "How do you know how the galaxy is bound together?" Argument
Like I said, there's a ridiculous amount of skill and experience in this match-- probably more than in any starfighter match in the history of ever. And it's on both sides. But there's also another category here...and that's the Force. And that's a blowout.
Basically it breaks down into three parts.
1.) "Use the Force, Luke"-- His targeting computer's off, but he's alright. Luke's unparalleled Force skills give him by and far the most incredible flying abilities in this match. Not only that, but he can extend his senses to gain a better sense of the battle and know exactly how to use those abilities to their max (and more on that in a bit). Of course, this is a given, it's part of what the argument above was touching on. Luke's the best here, and the Force is strong with him. But it doesn't just stop there...
2.) "Hokey religions"-- It doesn't just stop there, because while Han might not have the Force, Luke can communicate with him. And while Solo's not going to benefit from exactly the immediate danger sense provided by Fo
Hmm, tough decision. But Ken's arguments have swayed me. In any case, Luke by LotF is by far the best pilot in this draft.
Oh, and that should say "Who's taking Red Five," not Rogue Five. Since it's supposed to be Luke, not Gavin.
But yeah. I'm just glad somebody else even read any of that.
Gavin forfeit draws Fel TRUMP Janson (prep by Hobbie)
Luke forfeit draws Nial Declann
Janson forfeit draws Saesee Tiin
[hl=black]Team Rufio[/hl] (1) vs. [hl=deeppink]Ko He shin[/hl] (2)
We move on to the non-force now and call NF@
[hl=black]Kyle Katarn TRUMPED with Boba Fett[/hl] vs. [hl=deeppink]Durge (Prepared by Judder Page)[/hl]
Luke forfeit draws Nial Declann
Which means...where in the world is Vader Sandiego?
So, Ken, you gonna argue for your trump, or can I go with my assumption of Durge?
lol @ my softball schedule.
I'll post something tonight.
Though the Celtics won, so winning here is really icing on the cake. Kind of. Maybe an extra part of the cake. Or this is the cake and that's the icing. Or something.
And no I'm not a bandwagon fan. Unless there's a wagon called "Wanting Kobe Bryant to lose." Then yes, I already jumped all over that.
Okay. Done with softball. And eating. And no other excuses.
Anyways, I think Fett could take Durge without Kyle, but if that's where you're leaning, Intysaurus, I guess I could note a few things. It's kind of hard to break it down traditionally into categories, though, since there's really not much "tradition" to go off of. So I just put it in a list.
1.) The sheer amount of weaponry is heavily on Kyle/Fett's side (saying that out loud is funny-- Kyle Fett...imagine someone with both of those bloodlines, ha). There's little need to get into the details-- I mean, Fett alone is simply a walking killing machine. You could argue that Durge is too, but he just doesn't have the amount or even the quality that Fett has at his disposal. Oh, and Kyle Katarn is in this match too, Bryar pistol and Rail Detonator and thermal charges and all.
And how has Durge been defeated before? By simply being overpowered. Several blaster shots (run-of-the-Belt DC-15's, not even in the same league as Fett's EE-13 alone) in Clone Wars Chapter 8 drop him like a flitnat. A single follow-up rocket reduces him to a big gob of Gen'Dai goop. So do explosives from Skywalker in Obsession. In both cases, it allows for his opponents to end the battle-- he's herded by Skywalker into a sun in the latter, and flails around removed of all his equipment until engulfing Kenobi and being exploded in the former.
In fact, he could suck up Boba in a similar fashion...and even the generally emotionless Fett would have to laugh at the Sarlaccian irony. Or, actually, he probably wouldn't laugh. But the outcome would be the same.
2.) Fett himself is nigh indestructible (and so is Kyle, according to the Lit forum). His armor alone is capable of protecting him from everything from lasers to poisons to explosives without wearing down, and that's before LotF, where he upgrades to beskar, and can't even be beheaded by a direct lightsaber shot from Jaina. Again, there's about a bajillion other things that go along with that, but the bottom line is that Fett is more than well-armored enough to withstand prolonged attacks from Durge-- Bill Smith even notes that his body armor beneath the outer and initial inner layers is reinforced by another two layers of energized plates, which aside from giving him a ridiculous resistance to about everything in the galaxy, also help ground him against the force of physical and blast energy.
3.) So, that said, taking out Fett is going be tough enough, let alone having to worry about another well-armed and deadly combatant. In a non-Force situation, and non-amphistaffs-curled-around-you-in--empathetic-armor situation, fighting two enemies is indeed going to be of an insane difficulty. Durge may even have good reflexes with a great targeting system in his armor, but not only is that matched by Fett's equipment, but it's only a potential scratch in the Greater Krayt Dragon of a challenge that is defending oneself against such an onslaught while attempting to mount any sort of effective offensive. Not that Durge wouldn't be able to deal some damage through attacking, but he's simply not going to run through these two.
4) Finally, the prep really isn't going to do much for Durge in this situation, other than get him crazy amped to fight a Mandalore-- and Obsessions's proved that him going into a rage isn't exactly the smartest thing. In fact, Durge isn't exactly the smartest being. The fact that he's been "killed" multiple times doesn't exactly show up well on a fighting resume, and certainly not against guys like Kyle and Fett, who've definitely had their fair share of hand-to-hand and other combat-- and without 9 lives to do it. You only get one shot if you're a human, unless you've got Cade Skywalker in your pocket.
On the flip side, the Boba Fett young adult series shows that Fett already has intimate intel on Durge, even decades before the rumored return in Galaxies. And in the hands of two guys such as this, that's nova crystals.
Or, in the words of George Carl
Alright, I'm convinced. trump ... but it's close.
And the forFett (see what I did there?) draws Greivous ...
[hl=black]Team Rufio[/hl] (3) vs. [hl=deeppink]Ko He shin[/hl] (3)
How about F3?
[hl=black]Mara Jade Skywalker TRUMPED with Kyp Durron (Prepared by Leia Organa-Solo[/hl] vs. [hl=deeppink]Darth Vader TRUMPED with Anakin Skywalker[/hl]
And somewhere, Doc Brown is crying about what NYJ is doing to the space-time continuum ...
But it probably is the GREATEST. TRUMP. EVER.
Wouldn't you have to rule that the trump would go into shock and simply pass out?
But it probably is the GREATEST. TRUMP. EVER.
Not cause of Padme, no.
EDIT: But nice try on what I'm assuming was meant to be a Luke killer?
Nope, it was supposed to be a "lol" provider.