"This is as real as it gets!" The Michael Bay discussion thread!

Discussion in 'Archive: The Amphitheatre' started by Mastadge, Jun 10, 2002.

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  1. Mastadge Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 4, 1999
    star 7
    Michael Bay takes film as an art form, and throws it right out the window (defenestrates it, to those in the know 8-} )! He looks at demographics, and builds his movies around them. And they're a helluva lot of fun! I love 'em.
  2. TheFallen Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 27, 2001
    star 4
    Hey now - just because he and Jerry Bruckheimer's motto in the industry is "LET'S BLOW ---- UP!" doesn't mean they won't make a great movie someday... someday... Umm...
  3. Lord Bane Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    May 26, 1999
    star 5
    But is that a good way to make movies? He has little true respect from film critics it would seem, and his movies pander to the lowest, most explosive common denominator. Though, this could be more of a "film vs. movie" idea, in which case there is no need for this thread.

    Is this a Michael Bay fan club disguised as a discussion thread or an actual discussion of his work in some way that fits the forum?
  4. Mastadge Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 4, 1999
    star 7
    I guess it's really kind of a shift in the workings of Hollywood. I've never done any research, but it seems to me that the way movies used to be made mostly, and sometimes still are, is that the director would take or write a script that he truly wanted to do, and make his movie, and release it to the public.

    Now it's much more commercial. The directors aren't making movies for themselves, but for the audiences. They'll take unfinished scripts that seem kinda cool, and work on those while simultaneously shooting the picture. They'll make compromises based on their "target demographic." They'll show early screenings, and chop the film to ribbons based on the audiences reactions to that.

    The latter way, film has virtually no potential as art anymore, but as product. And it's a shame. A crowd-pleaser, made to sell, will please crowds, yes, as shown by the enormous success of the likes of Michael Bay and Roland Emmerich. But there's rarely any real depth or controversy to such movies. And even such directors as Spielberg seem to be relenting more to the mass market than making films exactly as they want them to be made.

    Just seems kind of a shame, to me.
  5. Pallas-Athena TFN Fan Fiction Archive Editor

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    Nov 29, 2000
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    ... and 81A sunset filter :D
  6. Spiderdevil Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Sep 20, 2000
    star 4
    In an interview discussing Pearl Harbor, Bay (or maybe it was Bruckheimer) said "If I made movies for the critics, I'd never make any money." There's a lot of truth to that. The films that are critical darlings average little to no box office take. Word-of-mouth works to some degree and they enjoy a good stint on video and DVD...but I suppose there's something to be said for making a film that appeals to a very broad audience. At least that way you're guaranteed a decent paycheck.

    I consider myself a good judge of films, and I recognize that Bay's films are just fluff. But sometimes that's all the moviegoers want. They want to be able to go to the theater, and just let their minds relax for two hours while still enjoying a movie. And really, what's wrong with that? Don't be ashamed about enjoying a movie just because it lacks some deep meaning.

    And while he'll probably get all snooty about Bay's flicks, I know that Lord Bane has a few movies in his collection that I'd classify as fluff. ;)

  7. Hatter Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 16, 2001
    star 4
    If there's a pair of men I'd like to take a sledgehammer to, it's Bay and Bruckheimer.
    They're responsible for the dumbing down of North American audiences.
  8. Mastadge Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jun 4, 1999
    star 7
    If there's a pair of men I'd like to take a sledgehammer to, it's Bay and Bruckheimer.
    They're responsible for the dumbing down of North American audiences.


    Um...no they're not. If anything they're guilty of being capitalists who feed the people exactly what they want. Their movies tend to be huge box office draws. Not art, not realism, not "thinking man's" action, but exactly the kind of high-octane roller-coaster action that draws huge crowds. They like to blow things up and they know how to make it look good. They don't "dumb down" audiences, they just cater to audiences who are willing and eager to take brainless films.
  9. Jedi_Lite Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 2, 2002
    star 4
    Just to give people some handy reference tools to further this discussion...

    Michael Bay has surprisingly few credits (as opposed to the man he's often paired with, Jerry Bruckheimer):

    Bay's Body of Work
    1995 - Bad Boys - Director
    1996 - The Rock - Director
    1998 - Armageddon - Producer/Director
    2001 - Pearl Harbor - Producer/Director

    Bruckheimer has been around much longer and has produced some good stuff: Black Hawk Down, Beverly Hills Cop I & II, American Gigolo, Top Gun, Enemy of the State, and Flashdance ... along with some real garbage: Coyote Ugly, Gone In 60 Seconds, Dangerous Minds, Bad Company and all of Bay's movies.
  10. Qui-Gon Zero Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 26, 1999
    star 4
    It doesn't bother me that Micheal Bay is out there directing movies. Like anyone else, he'll have fans and objectors. There's an audience for everything. I know that his movies aren't the most thought provoking movies out there, but every now and then, I'm just in a mood to watch a movie like the kind that Bay would direct. I think that most people have thier lists of guilty pleasures that they'll watch over and over.

    I'm a complete sucker for horror movies. Even the really cheesy ones. Do I expect other people to feel the same way that I do about those movies? Nope. Are they intelligently developed movies? For the most part, no. Are they fun to watch? They are to me. Do I feel guilty about it? Not at all.

    I'm not saying that I'm a big Micheal Bay fan, but it's just hard for me to understand why anyone would walk into a Bay flick and expect a highly intelligent and deeply emotional movie. Of course, this is directed towards people that have a knowledge of the types of movies that he's known for directing.

    Negative opinions are fun to read, but I'm sure that he doesn't walk into a 135 million dollars, and tries to make a terrible movie. In his mind, he probably thinks he's making a great movie. I do think that he frames his shots very well and I wouldn't call his action scenes boring. I think a couple of his movies are entertaining, but if I feel like watching a movie that requires my full attention, I'd logically watch something else.
  11. weezer Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 16, 2001
    star 6
    What about the PG/PG-13 Pearl Habor debacal. Am I the only one that finds that somewhat offensive ?[face_plain]

    Its one thing to try and get a lower rating on your own but to do it under pressure from studios like Bay says, wouldn't you be pulling a Smithee ?[face_plain]

    Has Bay started a whole new trend? Do you think we will see more and more directors release in theaters to reach one audience only to gear the DVD tward a diffrent group?
  12. DARTHPIGFEET Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 24, 2001
    star 4
    Well I think Michael Bay needs to stick with what works for him, and not go into films which don't need his cheesy humor/slow motion walking out of a hangar scene in it. He should have never been allowed to butcher and do what he did with Pearl Harbor. A movie full of historial flaws and tried to substitute it with a predictable cheesy love story instead.

    His BEST film is still The Rock. Bad Boys I can't watch no more because Will Smith just bugs the heck out of me.

    Armagedon?? Don't get me starter with how dumb this movie turned out to be.

    He needs to stick with pure action flicks and not do serious films, because it was him and JB who ruined a very serious drama written by Randall Wallace in Pearl Harbor or known before it was re-named The Tennessee. It was a serious movie which dived into the story in a serious historical fiction story and they humored it up and stuff and ruined the entire movie for me. Not too mention the running time of 3 boring hrs of love story buildup/attack/revenge.
  13. Darthkarma Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 30, 2000
    star 4

    I read somewhere that Sean Connery had to have quite a few "little talks" with Michael Bay during the production of THE ROCK to "explain" to Michael a lot of things about acting, actors, big movies and storytelling.

    I guess in the movie business if you're gonna get "taken to school", Sean Connery's not a bad teacher.

    I can't really tell from Michael's later movies that he learned anything though.
    However, I will give Bay credit for his films on technicalities. They are well-shot, the cinematography and editing are generally good.
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