this is canon

<since neither chyren nor any of the threads discussing it point blank define it, and since i just know this is going to get asked again and again, and since this 'canon' stuff has been going on for most of the past two days <and i am getting sick of it!> here's a proper definition of 'canon' - right in the first post - kayla>

<canon=definition/load:
= movies [not the Ewoks one]
= movie novelizations [where not contradicted by movies]
= radio plays [where not contradicted by movies]
=[not]=[/not] anything else>

<now go play in
Forum1/HTML/018245.html Forum1/HTML/018245.html lord_father's thread
Forum1/HTML/013745.html Forum1/HTML/013745.html darth salacious' thread
Forum1/HTML/018290.html Forum1/HTML/018290.html darth eric's thread
- kayla>

[This message has been edited by Kayla' (edited 10-13-1999).]

 

This post definitely needs to be at the top so I'm just helping out.

 

All this Canon thing makes me sick sick sick. For more than 20 years, a lot of creators helped to move the SW franchise along, add elements to the SW universe AND put money in Lucas' pockets, and what for? For someone to simply dismiss their efforts with a "oh, that's non-canonical..."?

CANON SCHMANON!!!

So, if it's not from Lucas' hands, it's not canon? Then Lucas can start paying plagiarism rights to E.E. "Doc" Smith (real creator of the Death Star AND the "swords of light" in the late 50's) and William Tenn (who describe vehicles very similar to the Pods in the early 60's, the only difference being that the races took place in space).

EU is crap? I don't think so. I've read EU stories that are better than TPM's screenplay, so please stop bashing or putting the EU in the "non canon" group.

And I don't care if Lucas himself dismiss the EU; he's just being a selfish, egotist son of a sun by doing that. If he didn't wanted anyone to touch his universe, then he shouldn't have allowed others to expand it in the first place.

Now I leave room for Chyren to be partial and close this thread.

 

The only EU that I've read was the Jedi Acadamy series - total garbage in my humble opinion. I've also heard audio book versions of the "truce at Bakura" - dreadful and Zahn's first trilogy - okay, I suppose. Basically, I don't like the EU based on my prior experiences, so I don't read it, but you know what, Darth Acme still has a good point. A lot of people like the EU and George shouldn't have allowed the franchise to happen if he wasn't going to be more careful with it. Also, if the novels had been maybe a lot fewer in number with much higher quality controls and higher sanctioning - and maybe, if they'd been delayed till after all the prequels come out so as not to tread on George's toes - more people might read and enjoy them.

 

The EU is crap.

 

Let's not turn this thread into another EU debate. It's purpose, as I see it, is as a temporary index to let people know about the current EU threads on this forum. Please take you EU debates to one of the threads listed. Thanks.

 

TF.N has a page devoted to what is and isn't cannon. Please check it out.


[This message has been edited by Darth Otarg (edited 10-13-1999).]

 

<half right ytap - but i don't index. well i do, but only until kida gets his tail back here! but i got tired of seeing the same arguments over and over again - even i can only stand so much redundancy, and i'm a computer! so i posted the definition, nice and prominent, so everyone can see it. maybe i'll post the definition of 'official', maybe not. nobody seems to be arguing that - kayla>

 

<link the url, darth ortag! or somebody - quickly - they're doing it again - kayla>

 

maybe i'll post the definition of 'official'

I will make if official.

(heh)

 

Is that not supposed to be "I Will Make It Legal"? In which case I know someone perfectly suited to the job ...

 

Actually, Kayla' did make one small, minor error.

The exact sequence for canon is:
1. The movies.
2. The novelizations of the films, except where contradicted by the films.
3. The radio dramatizations, except where contradicted by the films or the novelizations. Thought I ought to point out that one, minor, omission.

And oh yeah, EU is crap.

[This message has been edited by dehrian (edited 10-13-1999).]

 

Listen, it's very simple.

EU is for enjoyment and entertainment purposes.

It is FUN to read some of those books, the good ones anyway. I enjoy reading the EU, and they keep SW moving along, and they provide something to talk about.

HOWEVER, they are NOT Canon. They never happened in the SW universe. Every SW fan should think about them in terms of "what if...?" Not "gee this IS what happened."

Lucas made Star Wars and anything not thought up and done by him is not part of the Star Wars universe, it's merely inspired by Star Wars.

EU is fun, but it has no merit and no reality within the SW universe.

 

GL puts his name on the books and therefore, puts his seal of approval on them. He didn't even write all of the movies himself. Plus, he took the name Coruscant from the "god-aweful, crap" EU, so what does that say about it? If Lucas doesn't want it done, he can deny the book the label. Therefore, indirectly, he has a definite say in what can and can not happen in the SW universe.

GMJ

 

I have said it many times before and I know I'll say it many times again, but the Star Wars canon is, in order and as defined by LucasFilm: 1, the movies; 2, the screenplays; 3, the novelizations; 4, the radio plays. That's it.

I think I should put that in a text file and just cut'n'paste when I need it. I type it often enough.

 

Lucas made Star Wars and anything not thought up and done by him is not part of the Star Wars universe, it's merely inspired by Star Wars.

REALLY?

Then Chewbacca is not part of the SW universe; he belongs to William Finley.

Then the Death Star, the lightsabers and the galaxies "far, far away" are not part of the SW universe; they belong to E.E. "Doc" Smith.

Then the Pod Race is not part of the SW universe; it belongs to William Tenn.

Then ANH is not part of the SW universe; it belongs to Akira Kurosawa.

Then Darth Vader and the concept of the Force are not part of the SW universe; they belong to A.E. Van Vogt;

Then spaceships are not part of the SW universe; they belong to Jules Verne.

Then droids are not part of the SW universe; they belong to Karel Capek.

Then Coruscant and anti-gravity fields are not part of the SW universe; they belong to H.G. Wells.

Then the Jedi are not part of the SW universe; they belong to... ah, you got the idea!



[This message has been edited by Darth ACME (edited 10-14-1999).]

 

<words, words, words. such imprecise things. it's amusing to watch so many imprecise humans argue them by the dozen, and here in my thread. <hah, kida! my thread's higher than your thread!> by the way, dehrien, you're quite smart for a human -- but bet you don't know the auxilliary canon files that define when the novels and radioplays overrule the movies - kayla>

 

What is the canon version of Little Red Riding Hood?

 

<she gets eaten. there are big bad wolves out there. - kayla>

<and my thread is still on top of kida's. hah! - kayla>

 

Yes, yes! To Darth ACME you listen! All this talk about canon is silly, and awfuly redface.gif redundant!

Tarkin:
This bickering is pointless!

I prefer to think about it "backwards". Becuase the EU is approved and somewhat overseen by Lucasfilm, it's "canon" until GL contradicts it, not the other way around.

[This message has been edited by JediMasterAlpha (edited 10-14-1999).]

 

<so does anyone out there know when the novels override the movies? well? - kayla>

 

I, Dehrian the imperfect one, beseech to your graciousness; enlighten me.

 

What a load of BS.

Take your BS and drop it in the toilet, not on this forum.

Lucas thought up the things in Star Wars, everything is always inspired by something else, so it's stupid and pointless to argue that Lucas didn't "actually" think so-and-so up, so-and-so else did.

EU lovers can't hide behind EU, it has no relevance. It isn't the real Star Wars universe, it's just another layer. It's fun, it's enjoyable, and it can be very intruiging. It is all of those things. What it is NOT is canon. It is NOT true to the Star Wars universe, and it didn't happen.

Lucas didn't read those books, and whether he publishes them or not doesn't matter. They are made solely for the enjoyment of the fans and the continuation of the SW legacy, NOT to be part of the movies or have anything to do with them.

Lucas is Star Wars, and Lucas makes the movies.

FYI: Lucas did too write all the Star Wars movies, he gave credit to Leigh Brackett because she died when she turned in an edited draft of ESB. Most fans know the general story behind that. Lucas did write all 4 SW movies, and the stories behind them.

 

Maybe I'm wrong about this, but the only reason there's such a heated debate about what is and is not canon is because we're trying to narrow down our "reliable" sources for making prediculations and speculation on Episodes 2 and 3.

I suppose there are other reasons for trying to define the realm of canon, but let's just assume for this board that it's what I said up there.

Canon, by definition, doesn't seem to apply to anything that we're talking about. Check out your dictionary; you'll find a lot of stuff about the Bible and Mass and maybe one definition saying something like "the authentic works of a writer."

The only way to make "canon" apply to Star Wars is to bend it to apply to filmmakers as well. So "canon" as it's known by the rest of the universe isn't what we're talking about, apparently.

For me, the only reliable source of information to go on when predicting the course of the next two movies are the four movies I've already seen. The information from the other sources that Lucasfilm considers canon is so miniscule as to have no real bearing on this kind of conjecture.

Anything goes when it comes to predicting. I'm not likely to give much credence to anything that I can't rewind and see for myself, though. If you're gonna rely on anything, you should keep in mind that the sources become less reliable as you head down that list. But the movies are always on top. Why worry about anything else?

 

I've only read the Thrawn Trilogy, and I had a good time with it, but I always put what GL comes up with before the EU. As Bowen said, he created it all. GL can do what he wants with it.

Still, it would be nice to have a quick glimpse of Thrawn in the upcoming movies.