this is canon

Discussion in 'Attack of the Clones' started by Kayla', Oct 13, 1999.

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  1. DarthKarde Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 28, 2002
    star 5
    I know that this is a silly thought but maybe, just maybe we can stop having these stupid canon debates and learn to have a bit of respect for other peoples opinions. Why does it matter if something is canon or not, surely what is important is if you enjoy it or not. Everyone should view the SW universe the way that they want to and respect other peoples right to do the same.

    Yeah it was a really silly thought wasn't it.
  2. EmpressPalpatine Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Mar 31, 2001
    star 4
  3. dehrian Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Mar 18, 1999
    star 6
    Wow, this takes me back. I suddenly feel old...
  4. UK Sullustian Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 18, 1998
    star 4
    The final nail in this old, old, old coffin.

    George Lucas: ?There are two worlds here,? explained Lucas. ?There?s my world, which is the movies, and there?s this other world that has been created, which I say is the parallel universe ? the licensing world of the books, games and comic books. They don?t intrude on my world, which is a select period of time, [but] they do intrude in between the movies. I don?t get too involved in the parallel universe.?

    UKS
  5. SkywalkerChild Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Dec 18, 2002
    star 1
    Kinda hard to argue with the words of The Flanneled One. Thank you, UK Sullustian.

    Skywalker Child
  6. Jedi Merkurian Episode VII Thread-Reaper and Rumor Naysayer

    Manager
    Member Since:
    May 25, 2000
    star 6
    I didn't see any reference to "canon" anywhere in that quote...
  7. SkywalkerChild Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Dec 18, 2002
    star 1
    Okay, if George Lucas' universe is canon, and the books, games etc are a parallel universe, than they are not canon.

    Skywalker Child
  8. Genghis12 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 18, 1999
    star 6
    Merk...
    You need to read that statement like a movie purist, and then it becomes clear...
      George Lucas: ?***** *** *** ****** ****,? ********* **c**. ?*****?* ** *****, ***** ** *** ******, an* *****?* **** o**** ***** **** *** ***n *******, ***** * *** ** *** ******** ******** ? *** ********* ***** ** *** *****, ***** *** ***** *****. **** ***?* ******* ** ** *****, ***** ** * ****** ****** ** ****, [***] **** ** ******* ** ******* *** ******. * ***?* *** *** ******** ** *** ******** ********.?
    See, to movie purists, George obviously said "canon." :D
  9. RaptorRage Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Nov 17, 2001
    star 4
    All that quote said was that the novels, games and comics were not the movies.

    If all the EU were made into a movie format by LFL, would they then be considered 'canon' by the purists? If so then it seems that the purists hate the EU just because it requires reading. :p
  10. petmytauntaun Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 27, 2002
    star 3
    I love how that quote from Lucas is always taken out of context.

    Typical Purist: See! See! George Lucas said it, so it's true.

    Me: Yep, it is hard to argue with the Great Flanneled One. I've used his quotes a time or two myself...So tell me...Do you pronounce it "Nay-Boo" like George does? And they're "Laser-Swords" not Lightsabers right? :p
  11. Otis_Frampton LFL Artist, Moderator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jan 7, 2001
    star 4
    <<I love how that quote from Lucas is always taken out of context.>>

    How is it taken out of context? Lucas states that he considers there to be two worlds, his and everything else, which he feels is a "parallel universe". If I had created something like Star Wars and other creators were allowed to tell stories related to it, I'D consider it outside of the "real" story ALSO.

    It's all fiction, people, not manna from heaven. But it seems clear that GL sees his films as the only "real" story.

    This whole debate reminds me of that scene in "Monty Python's Life Of Brian" . .

    Crazed Fanatic #1: "Follow the Gourd!"
    Crazed Fnatic #2: "No, we must follow the Holy Shoe!"

    Blessed are the cheese-makers, indeed.

    -Otis
  12. augusto Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 6, 2001
    star 4
    What Lucas said is that there are two worlds in these forums, the movie boards to talk about the Star Wars movies, and everything else wrt Star Wars, to talk about everything else.

    Simple, no?
  13. petmytauntaun Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 27, 2002
    star 3
    All I'm saying is, in all the times I've seen that quote used, I've never seen the questions leading up to that answer used in full. Which if it was done, would give the proper context to the quote. There have been plenty of other instances that GL has endorsed the EU, but everyone chooses to ignore them.

    All that quote says (when taken in the proper context) is that the movies take precedence over the books if there is anything up for debate...A point that any fan of the EU will abide by as it is the EU's job to fit with the movies, not the other way around.
  14. Otis_Frampton LFL Artist, Moderator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jan 7, 2001
    star 4
    Right on, brother. Follow the Shoe.














    Or is it a Sandal?

    ;)

    -Otis
  15. petmytauntaun Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 27, 2002
    star 3
    My, my aren't we the comedian. Your clever wit astounds me.




    Oh, and just in case you couldn't tell, I was being sarcastic. :p

    My point on context is a simple one. If I say "Bite me", you may think I'm being rude. But if just before that someone said, "What do mosquito's do?", it kind of changes the context of my response now doesn't it?

    I don't know what the question that George Lucas was asked before making that quote was. I've never seen it posted. I would like to know what interview this was from so I can see for myself...That's all I'm getting at. I've already stated the context I view it in, maybe the full interview would change my opinion.

    I personally don't care who does or doesn't like the EU...some of it is crap as far as I'm concerned, but for the most part I like it.
  16. Otis_Frampton LFL Artist, Moderator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jan 7, 2001
    star 4
    I think you'd have to try very hard not to see the context of that quote.

    He's talking about:

    "the licensing world of the books, games and comic books."

    How is that open to interpretation?

    Oh, and I think YOU'RE the clever one, actually. Very inventive way of telling someone to "bite me", there.

    Niiiiiiiiice.

    :D

    -Otis
  17. petmytauntaun Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 27, 2002
    star 3
    Thanks for the compliment...And thanks for not taking this debate too seriously. We're supposed to be here to have fun after all.

    Who knows, maybe you're right. I could just be trying too hard. Meh!

    What brought up the context thing for me originally a long time ago was the Nov 24-30th 2001 TV Guide interview with GL. He made a quote almost identical to the one above. If taken by itself, it looked to me that he was dissing the EU. But if you go back 3 questions, he was really responding to questions about him doing another trilogy after Ep.III.
  18. Otis_Frampton LFL Artist, Moderator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jan 7, 2001
    star 4
    It wasn't a compliment. Sorry. :D

    Back on topic . .

    If you try VERY hard you can take that quote out of context. But you'd have to be trying very, VERY hard.

    Here is an excerpt from the actual Cinescape article in question:

    ********************************************

    He also reiterated that there would be no third trilogy, despite what he said years ago about the whole story being a trilogy of trilogies. He said it was a joke, and THE ROLLING STONE printed the idea as fact. After EPISODE III, there will be only printed STAR WARS stories from now on.

    ?There are two worlds here,? explained Lucas. ?There?s my world, which is the movies, and there?s this other world that has been created, which I say is the parallel universe ? the licensing world of the books, games and comic books. They don?t intrude on my world, which is a select period of time, [but] they do intrude in between the movies. I don?t get too involved in the parallel universe.?

    ********************************************

    He may have been responding to a question about a third trilogy, but his response clearly indicated his feelings towards "the licensing world of the books, games and comic books".

    If you want context, here is my interpretation (based on the actual printed article): After EPISODE III, there will be only printed STAR WARS stories from now on, which Lucas considers a parallel universe to the existing films.

    Here's a link to the online version of the article:

    Cinescape Online

    -Otis



  19. petmytauntaun Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 27, 2002
    star 3
    I'm sorry, I thought that from your smiley face that you got that I was just trying to initiate a little bit of friendly ribbing. I wasn't trying to offend you, and if I did, I apologize as it wasn't my intent to do so.

    Edit: Now that I've read the full article you've posted, I still don't see this as taking anything away from the EU. Yes, the movies still take precedence. No, GL doesn't get involved in the EU. He's still approved the licensing of the material. As I said before, it's the job of the EU to fit with the movies, not the other way around. That's all that GL's comment says to me.
  20. The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Jan 27, 2000
    star 10
    Lucas is speaking of what his universe, what his story is- the films and the saga of Anakin. Everything else (EU) takes place around that story. You'll note his use of the word intrude, which would mean it's part of the same, so by parallel, Lucas seems to be using the definition that means they coexist as part of the same or correspond to one another- which is what the EU and the films do.
  21. EmpressPalpatine Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Mar 31, 2001
    star 4
    if it is the job of the EU to fit into the movies scheme of things, then can someone please tell me, definitely who exactly designed the Death Star. was it a) Bevel Lemelisk? b) Qui Xux and the scientists of Maw Installation c) the Geonosians? d) an evil Ewok warlord???

    What turns me off from the EU is that everything had some deep gravid meaning.. I mean, Han Solo's pants have red piping. So? But the EU has to try to give themselves some credibility so they call it Corellian Blood Stripes.. I mean it is a frickin pair of pants.. not a political statement or some tribal or clan allegiance. or Amidala's lipstick.. Not just local Naboo fashion, but a "Slash of Remembrance" I mean, come on. And ysalamiri? Someone forgot to take their meds when they came up with that one.

    And if the Emperor can keep coming back as a clone, welll, that kinda kills the whole theme of Anakin being the Chosen One, who brings Balance to the Force.. unless of course, some EU author, as we speak has written a story with numerous Anakin clones who defeat the Palpy clones ad infinitum.. Kinda like having Yoda of the Sith around, pooping on Lucas' vision.

    and I am not even going to mention Boba "Jaster Mereel" Fett, and his many escapes from the Almighty Sarlacc...


    Chyren said it best..

    "The EU is crap"


  22. petmytauntaun Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 27, 2002
    star 3
    Well as far as your question about the Death Star goes, I saw in a post somewhere by BibFortunaTwilek that this was explained somewhere. That dude has too many posts to sift through for me to go looking around for it though. But the EU did explain their way around this.

    I will agree that some of the EU is crap. I enjoy most of it though. I ignore the comics and a few novels that I didn't like. To each his own though.
  23. The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Jan 27, 2000
    star 10
    >>then can someone please tell me, definitely who exactly designed the Death Star. was it a) Bevel Lemelisk? b) Qui Xux and the scientists of Maw Installation c) the Geonosians? d) an evil Ewok warlord???<<

    Bevel worked with the Geonosians on the initial design. Bevel was later hired to bring those plans up to snuff 20 years later, at Maw installation.


    >>What turns me off from the EU is that everything had some deep gravid meaning.. I mean, Han Solo's pants have red piping. So?<<

    So what? It's a trivial detail. What's so wrong with there being a cultural origin for the piping?


    >>And if the Emperor can keep coming back as a clone, welll, that kinda kills the whole theme of Anakin being the Chosen One, who brings Balance to the Force..<<

    He still brought balance to the Force. Balancing the Force does not mean destroying one half of it [the sith] (otherwise it wouldn't be very balanced, would it?). During the PT and OT, the darkside held dominance in the galaxy- both clouding everything and eventually ruling everything. Anakin reset the scales and eliminated the darkside's dominance- in fact his sacrifice resonates so strongly that not even the return of the Emperor can restore that lost domination.

    >>and I am not even going to mention Boba "Jaster Mereel" Fett<<

    ::coughaliasheisabountyhunterandwouldhavetogoundercoversometimescough::


  24. royalguard96 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 13, 2001
    star 5
    Bevel worked with the Geonosians on the initial design. Bevel was later hired to bring those plans up to snuff 20 years later, at Maw installation.

    Oh he was? I'd love to know which EU source points this out? Or where the Geonosians are even mentioned before AOTC.

    During the PT and OT, the darkside held dominance in the galaxy- both clouding everything and eventually ruling everything. Anakin reset the scales and eliminated the darkside's dominance- in fact his sacrifice resonates so strongly that not even the return of the Emperor can restore that lost domination.

    So explain why it is consistent that the Emperor would come back at all?? You contradicted yourself just in that portion right there.


    coughaliasheisabountyhunterandwouldhavetogoundercoversometimescough::

    Try using that thing called the "space bar." Located on the lower center of your keyboard ;)

    Boba Fett perfectly sums up the biggest contradiction between the films and the books. To me, the books wouldn't exist without the films, therefore, the films must take precedent here. Boba Fett's ORIGINS were supposedly explained in detail in several EU sources. I'd love to see where Kamino, clones and Jango Fett are mentioned in any of them. Oh wait, that's right, you can't. Sorry.

  25. 1stAD Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    May 10, 2001
    star 5
    George Lucas: ?There are two worlds here,? explained Lucas. ?There?s my world, which is the movies, and there?s this other world that has been created, which I say is the parallel universe ? the licensing world of the books, games and comic books. They don?t intrude on my world, which is a select period of time, [but] they do intrude in between the movies. I don?t get too involved in the parallel universe.?

    There you have it. It is not the Expanded Universe or EU has fans have it, but in fact the Parallel Universe or PU.

    I don't liek the PU ;)
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