this is canon

Discussion in 'Attack of the Clones' started by Kayla', Oct 13, 1999.

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  1. Porkins in a Speedo Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 6, 1999
    star 5
    what i don't understand is why most EU supporters feel the need to come up with radical, and often times ridiculous, explanations as to how everything fits together, especially in regards to the prequels. why can't you just say "contradictions exist and it's because stuff was written before the prequels and lucas' writings overrule EU material."???
  2. 1stAD Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    May 10, 2001
    star 5
  3. petmytauntaun Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 27, 2002
    star 3
    Contradictions exist and it's because stuff was written before the prequels. Lucas' writings overrule EU material.

    I said it. I like most of the EU and I'm perfectly comfortable saying this.

    I'll even add a little more. When said contradictions exist, it is the EU writers job to go back and clean up the discrepancy as new information presents itself. I just wish those explanations made more sense.

    Edit: Sorry, something apparently went on the fritz...
  4. The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth

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    Jan 27, 2000
    star 10
    >>Oh he was? I'd love to know which EU source points this out?<<

    "The New Essential Guide to Characters", under the entry for Bevel.

    >>Or where the Geonosians are even mentioned before AOTC.<<

    They obviously are not- but then nothing has really been written about the 20 BBY time era (save, perhaps, Han Solo's backstory).

    >>So explain why it is consistent that the Emperor would come back at all?? You contradicted yourself just in that portion right there.<<

    I don't think I did- what I said was that not even the Emperor's return could undo the balance brought to the Force and regain it's dominance in the galaxy. In other words, he was destined to fail.

    >>Try using that thing called the "space bar." Located on the lower center of your keyboard [wink.gif]<<

    Woah! [face_shocked] ;)

    >>Boba Fett's ORIGINS were supposedly explained in detail in several EU sources. I'd love to see where Kamino, clones and Jango Fett are mentioned in any of them. Oh wait, that's right, you can't. Sorry.<<

    New Essential Guide to Characters would be one of the more recent ones.

    His origins were actually never explained. 95% or more of his history that was told prior to AOTC was set, more or less, not soon before the events of ANH. We were never told anything about him as a child, so hence, there would be no mention of Kamino or clones or Jango. Not even the whole Jaster Mereel thing was ever specified as being his birth name or what his name was as a kid. All we knew was that he went by the name Jaster Mereel at some point in time. And it makes sense that he would do so to get close to a bounty target if he was the most recognizable bounty hunter in the galaxy. The Jaster thing was further rectified by the recent "Open Seasons" comic book, where we find that the real Jaster Mereel was Jango's mentor, and that Jango considered Boba "Jaster's legacy".

    So, in the end, there are no contradictions, just storys waiting to be told ::)
  5. petmytauntaun Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 27, 2002
    star 3
    Edit: Double post, see above. :)
  6. petmytauntaun Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Sep 27, 2002
    star 3
    Edit: Sorry, sorry...See above.
  7. The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth

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    test-trying to post my reply
  8. The_Standmaiden Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 28, 2002
    star 5
    2ndQuest: I think you've got it . . . you posted 15 times. ;)
  9. augusto Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 6, 2001
    star 4
    He must be posting from a paralell universe.
  10. royalguard96 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 13, 2001
    star 5
    Wow, I guess repetition is the power of strength.

    Sorry I don't count the NEGTC as a legit source because it did take AOTC's story into account. I'm talking about BEFORE AOTC. Face it, the films will always trump the books or any other revisionist history that comes out.
  11. DarthTerrious Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 16, 2001
    star 5
    Ah its aways fun seeing the EU fans getting an explanation out of their backside [face_plain]

    So Lucas sees the EU as a Parallel Universe, by that definition it never happened :D

    So anything could have happened after ROTJ not what the EU says......Thank you Mr. Lucas! :D

    Anyway that settles me on this. The EU is a good read, sorry the PREQUEL EU is a good read, the rest of it just makes no sense once you've seen ROTJ IMHO.

    Anyway those that like the EU as a whole, well good for you.
  12. Jedi_Liz Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 24, 2000
    star 6
    Oh he was? I'd love to know which EU source points this out? Or where the Geonosians are even mentioned before AOTC.


    I think this was mentioned in the New essential guide to the characters, which was on sale at the bookstore, right before AOTC was released in the theatre.

  13. The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth

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    Jan 27, 2000
    star 10
    Ah, crap!

    Ya know, I was trying to post that all last night, but kept recieving an error message- I even rechecked the thread to make sure I wasn't creating duplicate posts in spite of that error.

    Alas, it seems those errors merely delayed the posting.


    In other words- whoops [face_batting]

    I'll PM a mod to hopefully to delete or edit out those duplicates, sorry folks.
  14. The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth

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    star 10
    >> Sorry I don't count the NEGTC as a legit source because it did take AOTC's story into account. I'm talking about BEFORE AOTC. Face it, the films will always trump the books or any other revisionist history that comes out.<<

    The EU conforms to the films, this isn't desputed. When new information on an already-established subject is presented, new material such as the NEGTC creates new connections between them. It preserves both stories, so everyone wins in the end.

    >>So Lucas sees the EU as a Parallel Universe, by that definition it never happened<<

    Not so- look up the different definitions of parallel and then take the word intrude into context with that and it seems Lucas is actually using the definition of parallel where it means they are more or less part of the same.

    Parallel doesn't mean alternate, in other words. And, if you take "universe" to mean "story" then any definition is correct, since the EU story runs alongside the films story- occasionally overlapping (or "intruding").
  15. The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth

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    Thanks mods::)

    Now that the clone army of posts I unwittingly unleashed is taken care of... [face_batting]

    Part of my message that was added upon my later attempts to post was lost, so I'll repost that here:

    ">> what i don't understand is why most EU supporters feel the need to come up with radical, and often times ridiculous, explanations as to how everything fits together, especially in regards to the prequels. why can't you just say "contradictions exist and it's because stuff was written before the prequels and lucas' writings overrule EU material."???<<

    Well, first off, very few, if any, continuity fixes are ridiculous to the point where something would be better off just being thrown out. As to your other question- because if you can take the Tolkien route and explain any inconsistancies, why throw out an otherwise good story? Who really has the right to say someone's favorite SW story, or the SW story that made them a SW fan "doesn't count"?

    I mean, just because the Vader filmed in the OT was envisioned to be in his sixties by Lucas, does that mean we should throw out ROTJ because Lucas changed his mind when making the PT? No. Since his age was never stated in the OT, we can attribute any appearance in greater age as a sideeffect to his injuries that made him Vader. No different than any ret-con made for the EU.

    Plus, one of the appeals and strengths of the EU is that it is a unified whole- start hacking and slashing at it to chop it up into multiple pieces would demish that facet of it (not to mention cause consumer confusion among those who read the books but aren't uber geeks who search the net for a list of what is and what isn't part of continuity, etc) and it would end up being no better than the Star Trek books."
  16. Leto II Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jan 23, 2000
    star 6
    Ah its aways fun seeing the EU fans getting an explanation out of their backside [face_plain]

    So Lucas sees the EU as a Parallel Universe, by that definition it never happened :D


    Lucas is speaking of what his universe, what his story is- the films and the saga of Anakin. Everything else (EU) takes place around that story. You'll note his use of the word intrude, which would mean it's part of the same, so by parallel, Lucas seems to be using the definition that means they coexist as part of the same or correspond to one another- which is what the EU and the films do.
    A very good point, 2ndQuest, and I think a whole lotta people tend to either ignore the definition of "parallel" in this context entirely, or edit that Cinescape quotation completely out of context to suit their own needs.

    Most people (by accident, it seems) tend to use the Philip K. Dick/Man in the High Castle/Sliders/Doorways meaning of "parallel," as in envisioning the Expanded Universe to be a separate dimension that either supplants -- or is supplanted by -- the films of George Lucas. Not a separate continuum. Its true definition is contained directly in that quotation: a universe that coexists, that flows around the movies and back out the other side.

    Think of them as tributaries crossing and re-crossing the body of a primary river.

    What turns me off from the EU is that everything had some deep gravid meaning.. I mean, Han Solo's pants have red piping. So? But the EU has to try to give themselves some credibility so they call it Corellian Blood Stripes.. I mean it is a frickin pair of pants.. not a political statement or some tribal or clan allegiance. or Amidala's lipstick.. Not just local Naboo fashion, but a "Slash of Remembrance" I mean, come on. And ysalamiri? Someone forgot to take their meds when they came up with that one.

    And if the Emperor can keep coming back as a clone, welll, that kinda kills the whole theme of Anakin being the Chosen One, who brings Balance to the Force.. unless of course, some EU author, as we speak has written a story with numerous Anakin clones who defeat the Palpy clones ad infinitum.. Kinda like having Yoda of the Sith around, pooping on Lucas' vision.

    and I am not even going to mention Boba "Jaster Mereel" Fett, and his many escapes from the Almighty Sarlacc...


    Chyren said it best..

    "The EU is crap"
    Whatever floats your canoe, I guess. Thing is, MANY of us also enjoy having a wee bit of explication to go along with our movies, and to see people discounting an explanation for a tiny little on-screen "fillip" simply because it doesn't pour sanctified and virginal and holy from the pen of Lucas Almighty makes me chortle.
  17. DarthTerrious Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 16, 2001
    star 5
    Not so- look up the different definitions of parallel and then take the word intrude into context with that and it seems Lucas is actually using the definition of parallel where it means they are more or less part of the same.

    Parallel doesn't mean alternate, in other words. And, if you take "universe" to mean "story" then any definition is correct, since the EU story runs alongside the films story- occasionally overlapping (or "intruding").


    *cough*BS*cough* Ahem.... :p

    What he is saying is open to interpretation. Just as you read your interpretation i read mine.

    I do wish you'd jut take my post as just my opinion, i never presented any of it as fact, so refuting my opinion is a waste of your time. Jeez do people have to put IMHO because some are so ignorantly dumb?

    Fine to me that quote says it all the EU is just one of infinite possibilities. It didnt happen but it did happen if you take my meaning. Depends how you see it.
    The EU is not canon, it isn't what happened, before, between or after the saga. IMHO.

    EDIT: Taken out double negative :p
  18. WRAITH_OF_XMAS_PASTS Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Dec 17, 2002
    Alright. Look, The EU ain't crap. It is a story. Litature. I think it is pretty good. I don't care if you think it is cannon or not. I will read it and will continue to read it, And I will watch the movies and I will continue to Put both together. does that make me wrong and you right? Belief or Disbelief Lies with in every one.
  19. DarthTerrious Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 16, 2001
    star 5
    I'm just putting forth my opinion. Thats what this forum is for right?

    Besides I do respect everyone elses opinion here but with some i have to disagree. Thats life. I just wish some people would top acting as though my posts are written as though thy are presenting facts when it is just my opinion.

    You like the EU fine, I just happen to not.
  20. Guinastasia Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jun 9, 2002
    star 6
    Um, perhaps those who are screaming about the EU being "false" should realize that that whole saga is false-it's all fiction, and I think Lucas would be the first to tell us that, "It's just a story." (an incredible story, but a story nonethless).

    If you don't like the EU, that's fine. However, to me, the movies entertain me, and the EU entertains me. And that's what counts. Truly.
  21. HotsForTahiri78 Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Apr 2, 2002
    star 4
    The EU is all that sustains me in between movies. Either way its fine of curse, but there is no two parallel universes. All of SW is a parallel universe.
  22. The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth

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    Jan 27, 2000
    star 10
    >> What he is saying is open to interpretation. Just as you read your interpretation i read mine.<<

    That is true, but some people have taken their interpretation and presented it as fact (you have not), so I merely wanted to point out that the comment is open to interrpretation and isn't exactly set in stone one way or the other.
  23. SkywalkerChild Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Dec 18, 2002
    star 1
    I'd like to note that "parallel" means "running along side of, never touching" and that "intrude" is a very negative type of interruption.

    And the problem that many EU fans have is that they believe that Lucas is wrong when he contradicts the EU, which he has done: the Death Star, the Rule of Two. The NEGTC, quite frankly, doesn't count. It's just an encyclopedia, with entries that can be altered when the EU is, once again, proven wrong.

    If someone were to see the prequels and then read the EU, they would find themselves VERY corn-fuzzled as to how thirteen million beings stole the Death Star plans and/or created the Death Star or why the Emperor had two apprentices...because George Lucas' movies say this can't happen.

    Skywalker Child
  24. arrowheadpodracer Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 9, 2002
    star 5
    Canon, eh?

    I remember when we all KNEW Lukes father had been killed by Darth Vader, Because Obi-wan told us that's what happened. It was explained in the film. Very specifically. So until ESB came out, that was canon.

    "You'll find that many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our own point of view." ;)


    canon schmanon
  25. smauldookie Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Mar 5, 2002
    star 5
    i have a canon. a big one. :p
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