this is canon

Discussion in 'Attack of the Clones' started by Kayla', Oct 13, 1999.

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  1. Genghis12 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 18, 1999
    star 6
    Terrious...
    "The EU is not canon, it isn't what happened, before, between or after the saga."

    Merk brought this up earlier. Alright, fine, it's recognized this is your opinion.

    But, "it's my opinion" does not answer how in Anakin's red saber do you remotely get "canon" out of that statement. It's not mentioned anywhere.

    In any Lucas quote.

    Ever.
  2. Jansons_Funny_Twin Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Jul 31, 2002
    star 6
    And the problem that many EU fans have is that they believe that Lucas is wrong when he contradicts the EU,

    Actually, most EUers recognize that the movies override the EU, not the other way around. Sure, there is the fringe element, but they are hardly representative of the entirety of the EU Community.

    The NEGTC, quite frankly, doesn't count. It's just an encyclopedia, with entries that can be altered when the EU is, once again, proven wrong.

    That's what it's there for. When the movie overrides the EU, it is up to us, to adapt. The NEGTC does that.

    If someone were to see the prequels and then read the EU, they would find themselves VERY corn-fuzzled as to how thirteen million beings stole the Death Star plans and/or created the Death Star or why the Emperor had two apprentices...because George Lucas' movies say this can't happen.

    Not true. I got a friend of mine hooked on the movies and then the books. She asked many of the same questions, and I explained any inconsistancies. She wasn't confused or upset, she just listened and thought about what I had said.


    arrowheadpodracer: Right on!
  3. Jedi_Liz Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 24, 2000
    star 6
    why the Emperor had two apprentices...because George Lucas' movies say this can't happen.


    When did the Emperor have two apprentices? Vader was his ONLY apprentice in the OT. :confused: As far as I am concerned - Emperor Palpatine had *One* Sith apprentice.


    And I'll agree with everything else that JFT said.
  4. DarthTerrious Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    May 16, 2001
    star 5
    But, "it's my opinion" does not answer how in Anakin's red saber do you remotely get "canon" out of that statement. It's not mentioned anywhere.

    In any Lucas quote.

    Ever.


    Well the fact is that quote is only interpretable. Which means you can only take from it what you want.
    The whole Parallel Universe thing could mean ANYTHING. I choose to believe that it means the EU is just one of many possibilities of what happened before, between or after the Saga.
    The only thing that is canon really is the films, everything else is left to subjective individual opinion.
    There are countless books which have contradicts and even ruin some of the sagas most important points, most of the post ROTJ EU disregarded ROTJ anyway. Which is kind of sad. And thats why I can't ever view them as something that happened in the GFFA.
    I mean you EU guys can, sure, make it fit and even connect and believe it happened.

    The only thing I'll take away from the EU is that its a good read but nothing else.

  5. SkywalkerChild Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Dec 18, 2002
    star 1
    Actually, most EUers recognize that the movies override the EU, not the other way around. Sure, there is the fringe element, but they are hardly representative of the entirety of the EU Community.


    Then the fringe must be the most vocal (perhaps like the fandom that prefers Mara over everything else...ah, but I digress). Most die-hard EU fans that I've encountered feel Lucas is "screwing up their story" with his gosh darned PT.

    And as far as the NEGTC goes...do any of you realize how preposterous some of these entries are going to be by the end...people are going to be in several places at once, several people doing the same thing...it'll make your head spin...

    Rule of Two--one master, one apprentice. Mara violates this rule because, according to Zahn, she was "The Emperor's Hand", his apprentice, who learned the Force under him. Ergo, a contradiction.

    Skywalker Child
  6. arrowheadpodracer Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Apr 9, 2002
    star 5
    well.... depending on how technical you want to get. She was an apprentice, yes. But Mara has never been called (or referred to by anyone as) a "Sith", so the rule of two doesnt really apply.

    Is there still a contradiction? (On this subject I mean?)
  7. weezer Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    May 16, 2001
    star 6
    I'm not a big believer either way. There where just a few things I wanted to comment on.

    As far as I am concerned - Emperor Palpatine had *One* Sith apprentice.

    Those are the kind of comments that EUers make sometimes that really bug me. You've already seen 3 of them ?[face_plain] It seems a little hypocritical to say that every book, comic, video game, etc. is cannon but then some people will just ignore the movies ?[face_plain]
    I'm not saying it?s all of them or even the majority of them that do that (really I'm not even saying you did that I'm just making a point). Then again I've seen people in lit that do that with the books too. They'll say "Oh I didn't like that one so I don't recognize it" ?[face_plain]

    Most die-hard EU fans that I've encountered feel Lucas is "screwing up their story" with his gosh darned PT.

    Hang out on the PT boards much ;) :p
    I see twice as many OT fans that say that than I've ever seen EU fans say that. (then again I've seen EU fans that don't "recognize" the PT: see comment #1)

    And as far as the NEGTC goes...do any of you realize how preposterous some of these entries are going to be by the end...

    I thought they did a great job with Jango and Boba. I say if they can fix that back story they can fix anything.

    Rule of Two--one master, one apprentice. Mara violates this rule because, according to Zahn, she was "The Emperor's Hand", his apprentice, who learned the Force under him. Ergo, a contradiction.


    I would call it more of a loop hole. Lucas's world is very black and white, good and evil. We all know the real world isn't that way. EU does a good job of exploring that, some say that is its greatest fall others say its greatest strength
  8. Genghis12 Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Nov 18, 1999
    star 6
    Terrious...
    "Well the fact is that quote is only interpretable."

    Point conceeded. However, it still does not answer how one manages to construe "canon," from that quote. The word is never mentioned. Furthermore, as it has never been mentioned by Lucas in any quote, one cannot try to link this quote to the context of prior Lucas quotes that may define that word.

    The fact is, one cannot in any way interpret anything said by Lucas to ever get "canon" out of his words.

    He's never said anything on the matter at all.

    SkywalkerChild...
    "Most die-hard EU fans that I've encountered feel Lucas is "screwing up their story" with his gosh darned PT."

    Well, then they would be wrong. The PT has done absolutely nothing to negatively affect the established EU in any way. It all fits perfectly.

    "Rule of Two--one master, one apprentice. Mara violates this rule because, according to Zahn, she was "The Emperor's Hand", his apprentice, who learned the Force under him. Ergo, a contradiction."

    Mara Jade WAS NOT A SITH.. The rule of two - master and apprentice - applies to the Sith.
  9. The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth

    Manager
    Member Since:
    Jan 27, 2000
    star 10
    >> I'd like to note that "parallel" means "running along side of, never touching" <<

    It can also mean:

    -To equal; to match; to correspond to.
    -To be parallel; to correspond; to be like.
    -Conformity continued through many particulars or in all essential points; resemblance; similarity.
    -To place or set so as to be parallel; to place so as to be parallel to, or to conform in direction with, something else.
    -To make to conform to something else in character, motive, aim, or the like.

    The EU conforms, seems right to me.

    >>and that "intrude" is a very negative type of interruption.<<

    This is true, but implies they "exist" together for them to touch.

    Intrude typically means to enter without invitation or welcome, but we know this to be untrue since Lucas was actively involved in early EU, and provided input, approvals and rejections for alot of the modern EU- so it's not exactly out of his hands or anything.

    >>The NEGTC, quite frankly, doesn't count. It's just an encyclopedia, with entries that can be altered when the EU is, once again, proven wrong.<<

    Not proven wrong, just needing to factor in new information, thats all. And the EU adapts to the films when needed- it's never the other way around.

    >>or why the Emperor had two apprentices...<<

    The Emperor never had more than one apprentice- he did have several darkside Force users under his rule, but none were trained as a Sith. Mara Jade wasn't even what you would consider a Dark Jedi- she had some basic instruction in the use of the Force (on top of developing a type of mental bond with the Emperor), but the majority of her training involved covert operations and assassinations- not Sith teachings.

    Also, to be fair, the "rule of two" is a new thing- as of ROTJ's production, Lucas felt the Emperor had several Sith Lords working for him- Vader was just the most powerful. Lucas changed his mind when he wrote TPM.

    Who knows- maybe he didn't really change his mind and, in Lucas's mind, once he became Emperor, Palpatine trained more Sith and broke the rule of two. And, if that is the case, then the EU was stricter to the films than Lucas's own imagination ;;D
  10. royalguard96 Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Aug 13, 2001
    star 5
    I've been thinking about this issue a lot.

    Canon has to include the movies at the very least.

    Wouldn't the rest be left up to your own definition? We are fans, we have the right to decide what we do and do not consider to be the extended storyline. No one should decide for me what canon should be, nor do I have the right to decide that for anyone else.
  11. russelguppy Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Jun 8, 2002
    star 4
    I feel after all is said and done the last comment is the one we should all agrre with, I have a personal canon that pretty much takes in the whole universe, if something contradicts another there are ways around it or I ignre the one i least agree with. What we as fans of the films and the EU really need to realise (as some don't) is that the Star Wars Universe has been developed over nearly 30 years and unless GL had basically done everything himself there are going to be contradictions.
  12. SkywalkerChild Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Dec 18, 2002
    star 1
    What we as fans of the films and the EU really need to realise (as some don't) is that the Star Wars Universe has been developed over nearly 30 years and unless GL had basically done everything himself there are going to be contradictions.


    Ah, but the point is...if it contradicts Lucas, it ain't canon.

    Skywalker Child
  13. Aged-Master-Genghis Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 10, 2000
    star 1
    What happens when Lucas contradicts himself?
  14. Otis_Frampton LFL Artist, Moderator Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Jan 7, 2001
    star 4
    "What happens when Lucas contradicts himself?"

    The world stops spinning, the sky falls and Peter Jackson laughs maniacally in his underground lair.

    -Otis
  15. SkywalkerChild Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Dec 18, 2002
    star 1
    Whatever George said most recently is canon.

    Skywalker Child
  16. -Emperor_Palpatine- Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Feb 28, 2003
    GL keeps contradicting itself from time to time. The PT reflect this. Therefore i dont care if the PT contradics the EU. Its just another GL´s contradiction
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