this is canon

Discussion in 'Attack of the Clones' started by Kayla', Oct 13, 1999.

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  1. JediMasterAlpha Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 7, 1999
    star 3
    You can use EU for speculation becuse it has already been proven that GL will use EU elements to keep continuity in the entire series. That alone allows some speculation from the EU. He can contradict it, at least as far as we understand after TPM, but that does not totally invalidate the EU.
  2. Moriah Organa of Alderaan Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jul 7, 1999
    star 3
    As far as I know GL has to date used two EU elements in the films; the name 'Coruscant' for the central system of the Republic and the 'Outrider' as a background in ANH SE. Are there others?
  3. Go-Mer-Tonic Jedi Youngling

    Member Since:
    Aug 22, 1999
    star 6
    http://dave.itsgames.com/gt.jpg First, I am all for EU.

    I am all for saying it is Cannon.

    It is just that in the event something is contradicted by the films, or the hierchy of cannon, it ceases to be cannon.

    That does not diminish the value of the EU work, it is only a matter of dispute.

    George has no tyrranical rule over EU. He said write what you want, and just try to avoid talking about event right before the existing trilogy, cause I may make movies for that period, so if you talk about it, you may be contradicted by the films.

    It is his way of allowing the EU writer to be as creative as he wants, while it also allows Lucas to keep his vision that way he intends it to be, even if some EU writer said that Darth Vader was no one's father, just a gay interior decorator from Alderaan, it wouldn't cause a problem for George, and he just wanted them to know up front that it is his story, and he can do whatever he wants.

    Wouldn't you agree that Star Wars was created out of nothing by George Lucas?
  4. Jedi Warrior Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 24, 1999
    Go-Mer-Tonic, George Lucas does not read EU. Only if an EU idea becomes really popular he will use it. How do you expect EU as proof if the creator of the movies does not even read EU.
  5. Jedi Warrior Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 24, 1999
    Go-Mer-Tonic, George Lucas does not read EU. Only if an EU idea becomes really popular he will use it. How do you expect EU as proof if the creator of the movies does not even read EU.
  6. Emuboy Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 7, 1999
    star 5
    For the record, jasman said EU is NOT canon in the Communications Forum, if that means anything to anyone.

    Where is our proof of continuity between EU and Films? Corrucant isn't EXACTLY out of EU.
  7. Moriah Organa of Alderaan Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Jul 7, 1999
    star 3
    The Thrawn trilogy may be very good SF but it is not SW. It is a straightforward SF adventure with a sideline in political intrigue, the mythic element is conspicuous by its absence. And the yalsmiri (sic?) are the corniest device since kryptonite for getting around a hero's special abilities. Thrawn is an intriguing character, a fine example of the intelligent, cultured villain, but he's not Star Wars, (nothing mythic about him).
    Lucas has used two EU items in his movies. On the other hand he's contradicted the EU version of the origins of the Sith and everything anybody ever wrote about Jedi recruitment and training. On the balance I'd say he feels no responsibility to the EU at all.
  8. JediMasterAlpha Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 7, 1999
    star 3
    You had to go to Communications to find out what was canon? Hmm...

    Oh, and yes, Coruscant is out of the EU. Zahn picked the name from a list of possibles from GL. GL didn't like it later, was going to contradict it, and McCallum convinced him not to do it cause it was already well known in the EU. The fact remains: Zahn picked the name Coruscant. If you are going to cling to the arguement that Coruscant is not really an EU element, but originated as canon, then you must also be forced to believe that the NJO series is canon as well, because Lucas and LucasFilm basically designed the general story arc, but left it up to the writers to figure the rest out. Would you ever admit that the NJO series is canon? I didn't think so. So therefore Courscant was an EU element, made canon in ROTJ:SE and TPM

    Please note that I use the term "canon" here in the business sense that GL and LucasFilm use it. I personally feel that the ultimate canon is what you personally accept in your own vision of SW.

    [This message has been edited by JediMasterAlpha (edited 12-09-1999).]
  9. Emuboy Jedi Grand Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 7, 1999
    star 5
    I said Coruscant wasn't EXACTLY from EU because it was chosen from a list of names. It didn't come from an EU author's so-called-brain.
  10. GeneralLogan Jedi Padawan

    Member Since:
    Dec 9, 1999
    I have only recently ventured into the world of the EU, starting with the Tales of the Jedi comics and so on. Of course that begs the whole novels but not the comics argument.

    But anyway, it seems as though our whole canon debate isn't something that Lucas feels he has to deal with as the prequels continue to unfold. Considering his lack of involvement with the EU, he probably doesn't even remember much about the characters in those stories.

    He certainly has his hands full with putting the last two pieces into the middle of the puzzle, without including unnecessary references to outside stories.

    The closest he has come to admitting other material would be Shadows, wouldn't it? With all the marketing around it...

    (And while we are on canon, it makes me laugh how people love Boba Fett, and yet the baddest Bounty Hunter dies like a chump, unless you count the beloved EU.)
  11. abobbs Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Sep 24, 1999
    star 1
    I had to laugh after reading several posts talking about how EU is not what REALLY happened in the Star Wars universe.

    WAKE UP PEOPLE!!! STAR WARS DID NOT REALLY HAPPEN!!!

    I hate to burst your bubble but Star Wars is a fictional universe, so you are free to believe whatever you want about it. The anti-EU Nazi's can shut the hell up. Really, people, I suggest you get lives and find a real philosophical position and not one that involves defining for everyone else what is "canon"(god, I hate that word) and what "really" happened in the Star Wars Universe.

    On another note, since Star Wars is a collection of legends, why can't there be contradictions? Every set of legends and myths has variations and contradictions, which is what makes them so FUN(Oh dear, I have just implied that Star Wars is supposed to be fun!!! Angels and Ministers of Grace Defend Us!!! ) On the note of fun,what's this crap about "EU is fun, but the movies are the only real canon"? You guys are taking this all way too seriously when you start making those kinds of distinctions. That's all I have to say about that.

    Lastly, I would ask the anti-EU people to ask themselves why they are so worshipping of GL. GL is just a man. He thought up Star Wars; good for him. But it took lots of other people to bring it to life. Star Wars has now become much bigger and greater than he could have ever made it. The anti-EU people are devoted 4 movies and a film maker. The rest of us have broadened our minds to accept SW as a mythological playground with a multitude of stories and heroes. Who's the fool?
  12. scott2eyez Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 4, 1999
    star 4
    If star wars isnt real, how did they film it? With computer graphics and special effects?
  13. scott2eyez Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Nov 4, 1999
    star 4
    Anyone ever wonder why its called "EU"? As in "Expanded Universe"?

    Maybe its because its just an extension of the Star Wars universe. Like something tacked onto the side. Cheap merchandise.

    Anyway, I`d have no problem with it if it wasnt so poor. Are there any Star Wars books out there that even come close to the quality of the films? Are any of the books going to be remembered in 10-20 years time? Or are they all going to go the way of Splinter of the minds eye- contradicted, sidelined and forgotten.

    If you`re going to read a book, why not read a decent book written from an original idea, not a book based on an extra from a film. Or a dead character from a film who magically comes back to life. Or what happens after a film when all the loose ends have been tied up and resolved. Or what happens in between two films. Particularly when the only interesting things left open (before work on the prequels started) were off limits to the EU authors.
    And particularly when the film in question is so clearly based on visual effects.

    And who cares how many stormtroopers fit in an AT AT, or whether lightsabers have a safety catch. There are many many elements of the films that work well because they arent explained- its up to the viewer to put their own meaning to them. Exactly the reason Midichlorians got such a slating (despite the fact that they dont actually explain or change anything.) Cheap, half-thought out paperback novels kill that element of the films. I have yet to see anything from EU that adds depth to the films, yet TPM managed, despite all its percieved flaws.

    The novels are all rooted in an authors interpretation of the depiction of another mans idea. Thats not a good starting point to write a good book.

    On top of which, the films are Star Wars. EU is about Star Wars. As are the computer games, comics and toys. Same league. (Although I like the toys and computer games.)

    And thats why I think if a word like `canon` is going to be used in relation to Star Wars, it shouldnt include EU, contradicted or not.

    (All in my ever so humble, yet honest opinion. Thank you for your time.)
  14. Jedi Warrior Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Nov 24, 1999
    As I have stated before, George Lucas does not read EU. Coruscant was a really popular name. People like me who barely read EU called the capital Coruscant. Any Encyclopedia, the official site, or book made by Lucasfilm comes close. Any thing else comes from a galaxy far, far away.
  15. TK421 Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Jul 8, 1998
    OK For the last time

    EU IS NOT CRAP

    I am not an anti-EU Nazi.

    Abobbs. thank you. thank you for making me realize that SW is not real. My self-esteem has been so low because I thought that I couldn't use the Force.

    No one seems to be reading this argument correctly. Personally, I would like it if GL kept things consistent with the EU because continuity is one of my pet peeves. But Episode One has already contradicted a number of things and I don't think that GL will stop from contradicting something else. So, as a result, because all of the EU has the potential to be rendered false in the continuity of the films, it cannot be used to prove/disprove specualtion about the prequels.

    i.e., I've heard a number of times people referencing the Emperor's clones when arguing about the whole Sid=Palpy thing. I personally don't think that the Emperor's clones idea will enter in to the next films. Perhpas it will, I could be wrong, but I can't see using those stories as "proof" that they will show the Emperor cloning himself.


  16. Kayla Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Sep 24, 1999
    star 1
    <i got my name back! thanks, zoro! - kayla>
  17. JediMonocular Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Oct 30, 1999
    star 1
    The one agreed on source for canon is the films themselves. If it's true that everything in the films is canon then, (as I'm trying to prove on a seperate post) we MUST consider the E.T.'s in the Senate to be Canon. They aren't an "easter egg" as their appearance isn't "hidden" in some visual roschach test, etc., but is obvious and meant to be seen. Plus, GL has confirmed that they ARE E.T.'s (not some anonymous alien race). Thus, whether we like it or not, if the films are canon, then the E.T.'s must also be...

    P.S. If you want to defend me please go to my "Will the E.T.'s appear in the next two episodes" thread. I could use the support ...
  18. Kayla Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Sep 24, 1999
    star 1
    <and so the eu-canon debates start again for another year - kayla>
  19. DarthGregsTruk Jedi Master

    Member Since:
    Oct 30, 1999
    star 1
    My personal thoughts/beliefs on this matter:

    The EU is a valid source to use when speculating possible events in the upcoming prequels.

    Why?

    Because it's an extra resource we can use at this point at time. Filming hasn't begun on EpII, and, (as experience has shown) many details about an upcoming movie don't leak out until filming begins (generally speaking, of course...)

    That's why I feel the EU is a great resource to use for our predictions and speculations but ONLY FOR THE TIME BEING.

    Personally, I love the EU and I enjoy reading it.

    Now, I'm not going to say my 2c on whether the EU is canon or not, because all of you have done a wonderful job of debating this matter.

    But I'll leave you with this:

    Quote from:
    DARK EMPIRE
    TRADE PAPERBACK PROLOGUE
    "IS THE UNIVERSE BIG ENOUGH FOR ALL OF US":

    "When you read Dark Empire, or any of the other novels, remember that although Lucasfilm has approved them, these are OUR sequels, not George Lucas'. If Lucasfilm ever makes films that take place after Return of the Jedi, they will be George Lucas' creations, probably with no connection to anything we have written."

    - Kevin J Anderson
    (Author of The Jedi Academy Trilogy)
    1992


    Cheers!

    cGt


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  20. Kayla Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Sep 24, 1999
    star 1
    <my thread below darth eric's? this will never do - kayla>
  21. Kayla Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    Sep 24, 1999
    star 1
    <they're asking the c-question again - kayla>
  22. Darth Mischievous Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Oct 12, 1999
    star 6
    Six-and-a-half years after Doom was released, id announces they're working on a new Doom game for the new century.

    Check out the news http://bluesnews.com/cgi-bin/finger.pl?id=1here and a tidbit of info http://doomworld.com/here as well.
  23. son of rage Jedi Knight

    Member Since:
    May 7, 2000
    star 3
    If your lying I'll kill you, no worse I'll trojan you.
  24. Dan Force Ghost

    Member Since:
    Mar 15, 1999
    star 6
    This ain't no joke. I read it too. I can't wait!
  25. Chyren Manager Emeritus

    Member Since:
    Sep 30, 1998
    star 5
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